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 Island authenticity

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What do you believe?
JP3 Sorna is authentic to pass for TLW Sorna
38%
 38% [ 6 ]
JW Nublar is authentic to pass for JP Nublar
50%
 50% [ 8 ]
Neither of the JP3/JW repeat island portrayals is authentic
12%
 12% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 16
 

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PostSubject: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:10 pm

The two islands in the four films are supposed to portray same two locations in the Pacific, but do you actually buy the authenticity of the sites? As in, do you believe that JP3 Isla Sorna is the same Sorna as in TLW, and JW Isla Nublar is the same Nublar as in JP? Is the canon respected? You can look into it with any glasses you want, whether that's from JP universe's point of view or whatever. Was there effort enough from film makers side to make the locations look like in previous films?

We have heard a lot of criticism about the JP3 Sorna looking too green and sound stagey to the misty & pine woody TLW Sorna. Also the Nublar switcheroo might spark different opinions when it comes to the layout of the island.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Most people don't notice, but TLW is about 50/50 on the Redwoods and classic jungle ratio. JP/// just lacks that 50% that is the Redwoods, which is why is stands out more. So I'd say JP/// Isla Sorna very much passes for TLW Sorna. Despite how much I've ragged against the jungle set dressings in JP///, I don't think they're THAT bad. I mean, sure they're not TLW, but they're not nearly as bad as I've complained about before. TBH, I think the only thing I could have done different is the random placement of the ropes of ivy. If you look at a real forest, the ivy vines are always hugging a tree, not sparsely hanging away from the trunk. Everything else is really well done, though. It's no TLW temp camp on a river bed, but then again that was done at night, making it easier to hide any of the faults in it.

I'd also say that JW Nublar easily passes for JP Nublar. Most of the differences are down to difference in film quality, not location. JP used film that's 22 years less advanced than the stuff used on JW. It wasn't as clean, the color wasn't as rich, and that made the jungle and everything else have a faded kind of look to it. That said, JW went kinda wonky with the lens filters in post-production, which gives everything a bit of a blue-green quality to it. Artistic opinion, but I didn't care for it, and thought Trevorrow should have went for something a tad more in the gray spectrum.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:03 pm

TLW might indeed have that sort of ratio which you speak of, but I would bet that for most people, the image of primarily pine tree setting overrides the image of traditional jungles. It's the same for me, the blended vision you have of TLW in your brain. And that is the reason why I can't really buy that they are really supposed to be the same islands back to back. I mean of course, you also have the  overgrown jungle greenery and soundstagey-look of JP3, plus whole lot of more bright atmosphere than darker TLW, but the biodiversity surrounding is still the biggest factor IMO. I get that they could just be on different areas of the island in JP3, but it would have to be pretty gigantic island for that.

JW layout of Nublar doesn't really make sense to me, you know the way everything was placed and how it blended with the background. Especially the look of "restricted site" leaves me completely baffled. Then the island seems 10 times bigger than in JP. When Grant and kids walk from the big tree to the fence surrounding the InGen facilities, the distance really doesn't seem to be that huge. Few kilometers or whatever? At least that's the impression I always got of it. There seemed to be very little "natural" space in JP, apart from the paddocks themselves. Everything else had touch of human infrastructure in it. JW made the island seem more like giant fantasy land with unlimited space both for the park setting and free jungle space. Which there was lot of. And don't even get me started on the color palette. There's also my famous issues with the company not destroying the old park infrastructure and animals and whatever, but I feel like that's going away from the island setting authenticity, and more into the in-universe logic territory.

All in all, I had to pick the last option on the poll.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:14 pm

While Isla Nublar in JW suffers from strange visual differences from the first film, rather than geographical discrepancies, and those I can accept overall. For one thing, I do like how it shows how desensitized if you will the island has become after ten years of being modified by Masrani Global to be a commercially viable location, way more Disneyland or Universal Studios than an exotic private safari park, which is the vibe I got from the tour on Hammond's park. Furthermore, I actually do get a sense of geography and size to the island, and that wasn't something I had a good grasp on in the first film while watching it as a kid, until I discovered the maps. I'm not on the camp who says that JW's cinematography is bad (that I think is grossly exaggerated), but it should have looked more grounded and a touch less bright.

But with Isla Sorna, there is no explanation why the island is half redwoods and half jungles. Even the jungle scenes in the latter part of TWL, specifically around the Communications Center, doesn't resemble the jungles seen in JP3. Since then, the JP fanbase has come up with our own explanations for why that is, that being the different corners of the island. If it had been another island, I could actually see that working. And while it can't be helped, most of the jungle sets in JP3 don't look anywhere near as natural as the jungle sets in TLW.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:29 pm

Bonus questions:

1) Do you buy the logic in having completely another island, Isla Sorna, to breed dinosaurs for Jurassic Park in Isla Nublar? Does it make logical sense? Does Nublar not have room for such? Is the logistics of transporting dinosaurs between islands viable?

2) Do you buy that company would reconstruct a new park on top of old park on Nublar? Does it make logical sense? Would it not be easier to either go to mainland (like Ludlow's park) or entirely new empty island? Would people actually come to this place in such numbers, acknowledging the existence of the first park and San Diego?

In other words, do the sequels portray the two islands as something that would have actually realistically happened inside the JP universe? And secondly, do they make sense as film premises?
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:49 pm

Mistral wrote:
Bonus questions:

1) Do you buy the logic in having completely another island, Isla Sorna, to breed dinosaurs for Jurassic Park in Isla Nublar? Does it make logical sense? Does Nublar not have room for such? Is the logistics of transporting dinosaurs between islands viable?
Makes perfect sense to me. Even in Disney parks, there's an entire infrastructure that's behind the scenes that we never ever see. The Magic Kingdom itself is an entire story above sea level (in a state where most of the land is at or only a few feet above sea level). Crichton envisioned Jurassic Park as a kind of Disneyland of dinosaurs, so Sorna being Disneyland's hidden infrastructure makes perfect sense.

Mistral wrote:
2) Do you buy that company would reconstruct a new park on top of old park on Nublar? Does it make logical sense? Would it not be easier to either go to mainland (like Ludlow's park) or entirely new empty island? Would people actually come to this place in such numbers, acknowledging the existence of the first park and San Diego?
To me, I'm not quite sure WHY Masrani would have InGen would suddenly reinvest in an island project when
a. InGen was incredibly close to succeeding in the revived San Diego project
b. After the events of 1993, InGen seemed to have zero interest in Isla Nublar, even going so far as to fudge an excuse of magnetic disturbances to hide its existence.

They went to Sorna to harvest dinosaurs, no Nublar, for instance. For all intents and purposes, InGen seemed to have deemed Isla Nublar a dead investment. There's also the fact that InGen's lies about Isla Nublar would have come to light (Malcolm says that he spilled the beans on Nublar in TLW, and InGen went to great lengths to discredit him), thus revealing that Jurassic Park: Isla Nublar was effectively a death trap full of bloodthirsty dinosaurs. I have a feeling the public would have been uncomfortable with a theme park built on the literal and figurative skeletons of Jurassic Park and its employees. I think that Masrani would have known this, and have decided to have built somewhere in the Los Cinco Muertes archipelago, which would also have been closer to Isla Sorna, which we know they initially poached from in order to fill up Jurassic World when it first opened.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:11 pm

@CT-1138 wrote:
even going so far as to fudge an excuse of magnetic disturbances to hide its existence.

What?

As for Sorna, I really get that there would have to be a huge section of the hidden employee-only infrastructure reserved for the actual development and nursing of the animals, as well as all the failed experiments and whatever else. Malcolm explained it well in the second book. However, it still seems bit of a strange deal to me to have entire another island reserved for it. You could hide plenty of stuff either to some backwater jungle corner on Nublar , or even underground. It would likely be much more practical and easy to control than have entire another island, especially with the logistics. Not to mention the unpredictable weather patterns...

Anyway, I still see it making more sense than what they did with Nublar. First you go all through the trouble of keeping it in silence for years. Next you catch all the old dinosaurs and place them in captivity again. Conveniently you only demolish some of the past infrastructure, but not all for some reason. Followed by some landscape work. Then you build your futuristic budget friendly Disney World on this island. Finally you have a location that public knows to have had another failed park with fatalities before, before some ratted it out (+ San Diego debacle). Sound business plan and success? I'm not sure I'd call it realistic or authentic.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:15 pm

mistral wrote:
JW layout of Nublar doesn't really make sense to me, you know the way everything was placed and how it blended with the background. Especially the look of "restricted site" leaves me completely baffled. Then the island seems 10 times bigger than in JP. When Grant and kids walk from the big tree to the fence surrounding the InGen facilities, the distance really doesn't seem to be that huge. Few kilometers or whatever? At least that's the impression I always got of it. There seemed to be very little "natural" space in JP, apart from the paddocks themselves. Everything else had touch of human infrastructure in it. JW made the island seem more like giant fantasy land with unlimited space both for the park setting and free jungle space. Which there was lot of. 

I wouldn't really exaggerate the size difference between JP Isla Nublar and JW Isla Nublar, when it was already a large island to begin with in the first film. The island in some shots appeared to stretch on, seemingly beyond the horizon. This was just confirmed even further with JW, as we saw a lot more of Isla Nublar than in the first film. And regarding the walk that Dr. Grant and the kids took from the big tree to the perimeter fence and Visitor Center, it took practically the entire day to reach their destination. The walk itself, with the exception of getting caught up in the Gallimimus stampede, appeared to be relatively trouble free with the animals, therefore the reason why the group took so long to get to their destination was because of both the sheer distance of their walk and also the terrain of the island.

mistral wrote:
Anyway, I still see it making more sense than what they did with Nublar. First you go all through the trouble of keeping it in silence for years. Next you catch all the old dinosaurs and place them in captivity again. Conveniently you only demolish some of the past infrastructure, but not all for some reason. Followed by some landscape work. Then you build your futuristic budget friendly Disney World on this island. Finally you have a location that public knows to have had another failed park with fatalities before, before some ratted it out (+ San Diego debacle). Sound business plan and success? I'm not sure I'd call it realistic or authentic.

I think there is a good reason as to why they returned to Isla Nublar to construct Jurassic World.

It's the ideal location to build a new park on, as it is a place that they would have a lot of information about the island in terms of geography and the plans that went into the construction of the original park. Masrani could also potentially reuse some parts of JP for JW, such as some of the landscaping or the aviary.

As to why they appeared to have demolished the majority of the old park but not the Visitor Center; I believe it might be due to the possible expenses of the demolition of the building. For the most part, the majority of the structures in JP were just basic amenities and rather flimsy electric fences, the cost of getting rid of them would have been rather inexpensive. Filling in the old moats and removing the now redundant electrical equipment, would, while quite expensive, be worth the effort when considering that they'll be implementing new equipment and invisible barriers for the new park. 

However the costs to demolish the Visitor Center, would probably have been viewed as uneconomic. The majority of the building itself appeared to be made of very thick concrete, and that is just on the surface; there are also the equally thick foundations to remove as well. The cost of demolition could potentially have been more than what it cost to build the Center in the first place, as it is technically in good condition; but at the same time not good enough to make it a building that can be economically salvageable. There are also other factors to consider as well, such as the potential risk of having workmen inside trying to safely remove features such as the Showcase Theatre from a building that hasn't been maintained for at least a decade. It would probably have been a viewed as both more safe and cost efficient to leave the building to be reclaimed by nature.

Even if they did demolish the building, what would have been the point of it? The location of the Original Visitor Center from the map (from the now seemingly disappeared Isla Nublar website) show that it's south of Gyrosphere Valley, north of Gondola Lift and relatively close to the Lagoon Resort. There doesn't appear to be much room to place a new attraction in this location, and speaking of Gyrosphere Valley; the building is located rather close to a waterfall, so by the looks of things, the new electric fence would have still been built in order to not have the dinosaurs potentially falling off and getting killed.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:29 pm

@Gondrasia wrote:
I think there is a good reason as to why they returned to Isla Nublar to construct Jurassic World.

It's the ideal location to build a new park on, as it is a place that they would have a lot of information about the island in terms of geography and the plans that went into the construction of the original park. Masrani could also potentially reuse some parts of JP for JW, such as some of the landscaping or the aviary.

As to why they appeared to have demolished the majority of the old park but not the Visitor Center; I believe it might be due to the possible expenses of the demolition of the building. For the most part, the majority of the structures in JP were just basic amenities and rather flimsy electric fences, the cost of getting rid of them would have been rather inexpensive. Filling in the old moats and removing the now redundant electrical equipment, would, while quite expensive, be worth the effort when considering that they'll be implementing new equipment and invisible barriers for the new park. 

However the costs to demolish the Visitor Center, would probably have been viewed as uneconomic. The majority of the building itself appeared to be made of very thick concrete, and that is just on the surface; there are also the equally thick foundations to remove as well. The cost of demolition could potentially have been more than what it cost to build the Center in the first place, as it is technically in good condition; but at the same time not good enough to make it a building that can be economically salvageable. There are also other factors to consider as well, such as the potential risk of having workmen inside trying to safely remove features such as the Showcase Theatre from a building that hasn't been maintained for at least a decade. It would probably have been a viewed as both more safe and cost efficient to leave the building to be reclaimed by nature.

Even if they did demolish the building, what would have been the point of it? The location of the Original Visitor Center from the map (from the now seemingly disappeared Isla Nublar website) show that it's south of Gyrosphere Valley, north of Gondola Lift and relatively close to the Lagoon Resort. There doesn't appear to be much room to place a new attraction in this location, and speaking of Gyrosphere Valley; the building is located rather close to a waterfall, so by the looks of things, the new electric fence would have still been built in order to not have the dinosaurs potentially falling off and getting killed.
Sure they had the pre-established infrastructure, but in the end they barely used any of it. Pieces of wood from a door, maybe some of the flora and some of the fauna, but Jurassic World would have been insanely expensive to build, because in the end, Masrani's InGen still created several varieties of their own stocks of dinosaurs, and created a huge number of specialty attractions that InGen did initially not have in Jurassic Park. For all intents and purposes, InGen built an entirely new theme park upon the bodies left scattered from Jurassic Park.

Mistral wrote:
@CT-1138 wrote:
even going so far as to fudge an excuse of magnetic disturbances to hide its existence.

What?

As for Sorna, I really get that there would have to be a huge section of the hidden employee-only infrastructure reserved for the actual development and nursing of the animals, as well as all the failed experiments and whatever else. Malcolm explained it well in the second book. However, it still seems bit of a strange deal to me to have entire another island reserved for it. You could hide plenty of stuff either to some backwater jungle corner on Nublar , or even underground. It would likely be much more practical and easy to control than have entire another island, especially with the logistics. Not to mention the unpredictable weather patterns...
I always got the impression that Hammond wanted Isla Nublar to be special, a beautiful resort that catered to guests, and only to guests. He didn't want guests having to worry about inspections from the board popping up on Isla Nublar, or dinosaurs getting loose from the kennels and thus having to hurry guests into the emergency bunker. No, Hammond seemed to have a very specific vision for Nublar, and the dirty specifics behind the production of Jurassic Park wasn't part of that vision.

As for the magnetic disturbance, this is on the map in the trailer, it describes a magnetic disturbance at Nublars coordinates, which obviously doesn't exist.
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PostSubject: Re: Island authenticity   Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:20 pm

I have always had a hard time trying to believe that the Isla Sorna that we see in JP3 is the same as the one that we saw on TLW...

They just look way too different. Plus, you add to that the fact that the dinosaurs colors look so much more colorful it only adds to the this does not feel like the same island from TLW feeling.
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