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Rhedosaurus
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Fri May 12, 2017 3:48 pm

This is an interesting article about how movie studios are to blame for the decrease in movies.

These parts sums it up nicely.

Quote wrote:


UNIVERSAL? I know more about their theme park than what a “Universal movie” is.
   
WARNER BROTHERS? Um… Batman, kinda?
   
FOX? I bet they’d fire everyone tomorrow if they could have one-tenth of the brand identity their news division has.
 
SONY? Lololol.

Quote wrote:


-1) It’s become clear that studios have virtually zero ability to shepherd and facilitate an artist’s vision for a unique project. Certainly, no better than an experienced producer can while working through the channels of independent financing.

-2) It’s become clear that the studios are unimaginative and uninformed about the very “product” they are making. The industry’s obsession with how they market films (instead of the making of good ones) means more influence from the marketing industry – guys and gals who have never written script, or made a film, and thus lack a fundamental understanding of what it is they’re even doing.

-3) It’s become clear that the one thing they should be good at – selling movies – they can’t do either. By consistently opting to rehash old (and already proven) ideas, or continuing to make an endless number of sequels – the studios have essentially admitted that they have no clue how to promote anything unless the bulk of the work has already been done for them. “You had one job to do!”

And people wonder why I want Disney to get the JP rights after the Crichton estate gets them back after JW3/JP6.


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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sat May 13, 2017 9:39 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
This is an interesting article about how movie studios are to blame for the decrease in movies.

These parts sums it up nicely.

Quote wrote:


UNIVERSAL? I know more about their theme park than what a “Universal movie” is.
   
WARNER BROTHERS? Um… Batman, kinda?
   
FOX? I bet they’d fire everyone tomorrow if they could have one-tenth of the brand identity their     news division has.
 
SONY? Lololol.

Quote wrote:


-1) It’s become clear that studios have virtually zero ability to shepherd and facilitate an artist’s vision for a unique project. Certainly, no better than an experienced producer can while working through the channels of independent financing.

-2) It’s become clear that the studios are unimaginative and uninformed about the very “product” they are making. The industry’s obsession with how they market films (instead of the making of good ones) means more influence from the marketing industry – guys and gals who have never written script, or made a film, and thus lack a fundamental understanding of what it is they’re even doing.

-3) It’s become clear that the one thing they should be good at – selling movies – they can’t do either. By consistently opting to rehash old (and already proven) ideas, or continuing to make an endless number of sequels – the studios have essentially admitted that they have no clue how to promote anything unless the bulk of the work has already been done for them. “You had one job to do!”

And people wonder why want Disney to get the JP rights after the Crichton estate gets them back after JW3/JP6.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine. The other studios seem to be bound to the prow of a wrecked ship careening into a reef. Unlike Disney, and especially like DreamWorks Animation today, they have little to no brand identity, and almost no reason why audiences would care about them or their success the way many feel about Disney, even Netflix has it's own identity that audiences are not only aware of but actively seeking.

Back when the major studios (MGM, RKO, Warner Bros, Paramount, Columbia Pictures, Fox, Universal) were first starting to get a footing, they all had a semblance of identity. Universal had their supernatural films and monster movies, Columbia Pictures had an affinity for romances, WB were the masters of the film noir, and MGM were the prestige studio on the block. And even then, Disney was the big breakout success of 1937 with "Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs", and their signature style was family friendly stories and animation. The one part of the post I disagree with is that only Lucasfilm and Marvel studios will help Disney stay afloat, they still have Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios is riding a strong success streak, as well as carrying the legacy of classics from Snow White to Beauty and the Beast. Even if their live action in-house films struggle and falter, their in-house animation has a secure footing.

With regards to to Universal, I think they're living on borrowed time like the others. However, they don't have the baggage that Fox, WB, Paramount or Sony do but they will probably get saddled with their own new problems if The Mummy isn't a hit. What they will do after time's up for one of their golden (dinosaur shaped) geese is anyone's guess, and a very interesting quandary at that. My answer to Disney getting the JP rights remains the same. They could certainly buy Amblin Entertainment and the franchise catalogue that comes with it, but there is such a thing as too much influence, and how/why would they do anything more or less creatively driven than Universal? I will maintain that the jury is still out before JW2/JP5 comes around. But at this point I do see where you're coming from on this front, especially after having read this article.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sat May 13, 2017 10:26 am

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
This is an interesting article about how movie studios are to blame for the decrease in movies.

These parts sums it up nicely.

Quote wrote:


UNIVERSAL? I know more about their theme park than what a “Universal movie” is.
   
WARNER BROTHERS? Um… Batman, kinda?
   
FOX? I bet they’d fire everyone tomorrow if they could have one-tenth of the brand identity their news division has.
 
SONY? Lololol.

Quote wrote:


-1) It’s become clear that studios have virtually zero ability to shepherd and facilitate an artist’s vision for a unique project. Certainly, no better than an experienced producer can while working through the channels of independent financing.

-2) It’s become clear that the studios are unimaginative and uninformed about the very “product” they are making. The industry’s obsession with how they market films (instead of the making of good ones) means more influence from the marketing industry – guys and gals who have never written script, or made a film, and thus lack a fundamental understanding of what it is they’re even doing.

-3) It’s become clear that the one thing they should be good at – selling movies – they can’t do either. By consistently opting to rehash old (and already proven) ideas, or continuing to make an endless number of sequels – the studios have essentially admitted that they have no clue how to promote anything unless the bulk of the work has already been done for them. “You had one job to do!”

And people wonder why want Disney to get the JP rights after the Crichton estate gets them back after JW3/JP6.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine. The other studios seem to be bound to the prow of a wrecked ship careening into a reef. Unlike Disney, and especially like DreamWorks Animation today, they have little to no brand identity, and almost no reason why audiences would care about them or their success the way many feel about Disney, even Netflix has it's own identity that audiences are not only aware of but actively seeking.

Back when the major studios (MGM, RKO, Warner Bros, Paramount, Columbia Pictures, Fox, Universal) were first starting to get a footing, they all had a semblance of identity. Universal had their supernatural films and monster movies, Columbia Pictures had an affinity for romances, WB were the masters of the film noir, and MGM were the prestige studio on the block. And even then, Disney was the big breakout success of 1937 with "Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs", and their signature style was family friendly stories and animation. The one part of the post I disagree with is that only Lucasfilm and Marvel studios will help Disney stay afloat, they still have Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios is riding a strong success streak, as well as carrying the legacy of classics from Snow White to Beauty and the Beast. Even if their live action in-house films struggle and falter, their in-house animation has a secure footing.

With regards to to Universal, I think they're living on borrowed time like the others. However, they don't have the baggage that Fox, WB, Paramount or Sony do but they will probably get saddled with their own new problems if The Mummy isn't a hit. What they will do after time's up for one of their golden (dinosaur shaped) geese is anyone's guess, and a very interesting quandary at that. My answer to Disney getting the JP rights remains the same. They could certainly buy Amblin Entertainment and the franchise catalogue that comes with it, but there is such a thing as too much influence, and how/why would they do anything more or less creatively driven than Universal? I will maintain that the jury is still out before JW2/JP5 comes around. But at this point I do see where you're coming from on this front, especially after having read this article.

That and in the 1950's WB had a lot of success with sci-fi movies like The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms and THEM!.

I also disagree that Fox doesn't have an identity. Even when they get rid of the Fantastic 4, they will still have the X-Men, Alien, and Predator franchises. So while they don't have as much of an identity that Disney has, at least they have one. And Fox has always been a profitable company, even when King Rothman was running the place. Add how they've fixed most of the damage he caused (Fant4stic being the big exception) and in a few years, they'll still be in respectable shape. They'll be more battered then Disney, but they'll still be standing above everyone else. I really don't see how Sony can survive and who if Paramount can get out of their $13-$14 million dollar debt. W.B. might regain one, but it's going to be rough given how they are also in debt and how the DCCU has been exploding and imploding at the same time. Universal seems to be to be too focused on the here and now to care about a long term plan, unless you count the F&F movie series which, despite all the box office success, is nearing an end. And if they don't regain the JP rights, it's going to be game over for a long time, since I don't see their Monsterverse working as much as they think. Lionsgate is iffy and I'm surprised that MGM is still around.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sat May 13, 2017 11:04 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:

That and in the 1950's WB had a lot of success with sci-fi movies like The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms and THEM!.

I also disagree that Fox doesn't have an identity. Even when they get rid of the Fantastic 4, they will still have the X-Men, Alien, and Predator franchises. So while they don't have as much of an identity that Disney has, at least they have one. And Fox has always been a profitable company, even when King Rothman was running the place. Add how they've fixed most of the damage he caused (Fant4stic being the big exception) and in a few years, they'll still be in respectable shape. They'll be more battered then Disney, but they'll still be standing above everyone else. I really don't see how Sony can survive and who if Paramount can get out of their $13-$14 million dollar debt. W.B. might regain one, but it's going to be rough given how they are also in debt and how the DCCU has been exploding and imploding at the same time. Universal seems to be to be too focused on the here and now to care about a long term plan, unless you count the F&F movie series which, despite all the box office success, is nearing an end. And if they don't regain the JP rights, it's going to be game over for a long time, since I don't see their Monsterverse working as much as they think. Lionsgate is iffy and I'm surprised that MGM is still around.

Admittedly, that's why I didn't address Fox directly; and why the term was "little to no identity" (rather than zero identity) which is not entirely true. These days, Fox of all studios seems to be building their own niche of mid-budget R-rated blockbusters. X-Men might be mainly PG-13 and the ones with the most money to spend, but with Deadpool, Logan, Planet of the Apes, and the renewed Alien franchise and the upcoming Predator movie, it certainly gives a strong impression of mature sci-fi films with a harder edge to them that is actually earned. Its usually when they release something like 'Bad Moms', a raunchy R-rated comedy, that usually sticks out.

MGM is technically not one of the big players, they tend to attach themselves to other studios, like Warner Bros (The Hobbit), Columbia Pictures (21 Jump Street and Magnificent Seven), and Paramount (Ben-Hur). They basically co-finance other studios' films and either reap the benefits/damages of said films, though why they have not yet tried to launch with smaller properties without the larger studios is something of a mystery to me. Lionsgate won my approval with La La Land and Hacksaw Ridge, but they have yet to find a franchise to properly replace Hunger Games. The ace up WB's sleeve might be the Legendary Monsters Cinematic Universe, which at least is off to a less rocky start than the DCEU. While they still have Harry Potter, that's also a finite well. And who knows if anyone would accept a Middle-earth film not directed by Peter Jackson. Also, their Looney Toons/Hanna Barbera catalogue have been on and off over the decades, with the best of that material being in the past.

Steven Spielberg practically helped reshape Universal into the prestigious studio most people tended to see them as in the 80s and 90s, largely through the films he personally directed or executive produced for them. He was to them was Christopher Nolan is the Warner Bros now, and the films he directed became pertinent to the studio's identity in addition to the famous Universal Monsters. Its just a regal shame that that influence gradually faded over the years, Back to the Future and E.T. were one-and-done classics, Jaws petered out badly after the first film, Amblimation only put out three films in its time before folding, and Jurassic Park III basically put that franchise on ice. At east Jurassic World felt more like a Universal movie than its contemporaries from the same studio.

(edit: Even The Mummy trilogy with Brendan Fraser was essentially a more tongue-in-cheek Indiana Jones franchise, another quintessentially Spielberg property. Though, more accurately, it sported the aesthetics of the Indy series but lacked pretty much any of the substance and just went for go-for-broke action and one liners with a supernatural, 1930s twist.)
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sat May 13, 2017 11:40 am

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:

That and in the 1950's WB had a lot of success with sci-fi movies like The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms and THEM!.

I also disagree that Fox doesn't have an identity. Even when they get rid of the Fantastic 4, they will still have the X-Men, Alien, and Predator franchises. So while they don't have as much of an identity that Disney has, at least they have one. And Fox has always been a profitable company, even when King Rothman was running the place. Add how they've fixed most of the damage he caused (Fant4stic being the big exception) and in a few years, they'll still be in respectable shape. They'll be more battered then Disney, but they'll still be standing above everyone else. I really don't see how Sony can survive and who if Paramount can get out of their $13-$14 million dollar debt. W.B. might regain one, but it's going to be rough given how they are also in debt and how the DCCU has been exploding and imploding at the same time. Universal seems to be to be too focused on the here and now to care about a long term plan, unless you count the F&F movie series which, despite all the box office success, is nearing an end. And if they don't regain the JP rights, it's going to be game over for a long time, since I don't see their Monsterverse working as much as they think. Lionsgate is iffy and I'm surprised that MGM is still around.

Admittedly, that's why I didn't address Fox directly; and why the term was "little to no identity" (rather than zero identity) which is not entirely true. These days, Fox of all studios seems to be building their own niche of mid-budget R-rated blockbusters. X-Men might be mainly PG-13 and the ones with the most money to spend, but with Deadpool, Logan, Planet of the Apes, and the renewed Alien franchise and the upcoming Predator movie, it certainly gives a strong impression of mature sci-fi films with a harder edge to them that is actually earned. Its usually when they release something like 'Bad Moms', a raunchy R-rated comedy, that usually sticks out.

MGM is technically not one of the big players, they tend to attach themselves to other studios, like Warner Bros (The Hobbit), Columbia Pictures (21 Jump Street and Magnificent Seven), and Paramount (Ben-Hur). They basically co-finance other studios' films and either reap the benefits/damages of said films, though why they have tried to strike out with smaller original properties is something of a mystery to me. Lionsgate won my approval with La La Land and Hacksaw Ridge, but they have yet to find a franchise to properly replace Hunger Games. The ace up WB's sleeve might be the Legendary Monsters Cinematic Universe, which at least is off to a less rocky start than the DCEU. While they still have Harry Potter but that's also a finite well, and who knows if anyone would accept a Middle-earth film not directed by Peter Jackson.

Steven Spielberg practically helped reshape Universal into the prestigious studio most people tended to see them as in the 80s and 90s, largely through the films he personally directed or executive produced for them. He was to them was Christopher Nolan is the Warner Bros now, and the films he directed became pertinent to the studio's identity in addition to the famous Universal Monsters. Its just a regal shame that that influence gradually faded over the years, Back to the Future and E.T. were one-and-done classics, Jaws petered out badly after the first film, Amblimation only put out three films in its time before folding, and Jurassic Park III basically put that franchise on ice. At least Jurassic World felt more like a Universal movie than its contemporaries from the same studio.

(edit: Even The Mummy trilogy with Brendan Fraser was essentially a more tongue-in-cheek Indiana Jones franchise, another quintessentially Spielberg property. Though, more accurately, it sported the aesthetics of the Indy series but lacked pretty much any of the substance and just went for go-for-broke action and one liners with a supernatural, 1930s twist.)

It's a shame that MGM has faded out of the limelight. Even more considering how Ben-Hur, which was 80% of their doing, bombed hard. As for Universal with Spielberg, I honestly think he's in it for the money and to keep his name going so that he doesn't get forgotten. The fact that he didn't do anything to make JP3 better then the pile of trash that it became is proof of that. The JP franchise doesn't really need him anymore and he doesn't need it. I still think that Dreamworks could make good traditional animated movie if it stopped making trash like Boss Baby.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sat May 13, 2017 3:38 pm

Last night I watched Victor Frankenstein starring Daniel Radcliffe and James Mcavoy. Playing Igor and the deranged doctor respectively, this was a really interesting version of the classic tale. It also has a couple cinematic firsts for me. I won't pretend to have seen every cinematic version of Frankenstein, but I have seen most of them, and I think this is the first time I've seen a Frankenstein movie where the monster is shown as he's described in the book: pus yellow skin instead of green, and grotesquely shaped. I did enjoy the joke about giving him a flat head, even if that's not how the monster eventually came out looking. It was a nice nod to the 1931 movie. I also believe this is the first version where Dr. Frankenstein is automatically horrified at his creation, just like in the book. Most versions have Dr. Frankenstein madly excited about his creation, running about his laboratory in a frantic state of deranged glee. Not this time. He sees what he created isn't what he imagined, and seeks to instantly destroy this monstrosity.

It's a very character driven version of the Frankenstein tale, focussing on Igor's point of view, which is something we also haven't gotten before outside of a terrible, failed children's cartoon that wasn't very good. I liked that perspective, and Mcavoy and Radcliffe played off each other very well. The romantic subplot between Igor and the trapeze artist woman never seemed especially prominent, like the writers never knew what they wanted from it, but it's an otherwise very worthy addition to a long list of cinematic Frankenstein monsters.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sat May 13, 2017 7:27 pm

With a movie budget of $175 million dollars and a marketing campaign of another $75 million, the new King Arthur movie projected to make just $14 million in it's box office debut.

Buckle your seatbelts, people. Because unless Wonder Woman and Justice League do well and Transformers 5 does better then what people think, it looks like another crappy year for movies...just as long as it's not Disney via the MCU or Star Wars that is.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 14, 2017 12:06 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
With a movie budget of $175 million dollars and a marketing campaign of another $75 million, the new King Arthur movie projected to make just $14 million in it's box office debut.

Buckle your seatbelts, people. Because unless Wonder Woman and Justice League do well and Transformers 5 does better then what people think, it looks like another crappy year for movies...just as long as it's not Disney via the MCU or Star Wars that is.

Nah it was huge success man. 14.7 million.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/05/14/box-office-king-arthur-royally-flops-with-14-7m-weekend/#70cb66dd7ada
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 14, 2017 3:41 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
With a movie budget of $175 million dollars and a marketing campaign of another $75 million, the new King Arthur movie projected to make just $14 million in it's box office debut.

Buckle your seatbelts, people. Because unless Wonder Woman and Justice League do well and Transformers 5 does better then what people think, it looks like another crappy year for movies...just as long as it's not Disney via the MCU or Star Wars that is.

Jesus, I think we all saw this coming with the first trailers for King Arthur; which were just off-putting as hell. With all the iterations of King Arthur out there, this version looked like a fusion of two completely different things: Guy Ritchie and mythology. Poor sod should have lobbied for a sequel to The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

At this rate, how long before Warner Bros falls back onto another fantasy property, be it Dragonriders of Pern or Dungeons and Dragons? Those are the ones I've heard they were in the script writing process for. Sad thing is it won't matter if they can't make a good movie that doesn't rely on the formula they've relied on for all these years.

And lastly, take a gander at all the inane, pointless and completely boneheaded ways that the film contradicts Arthurian mythology and falls back of uninspired screenwriting. It's so bad, my jaw dropped a few times, I am now thoroughly convinced not to see it, and that its no surprised Warner Bros tried to hide the film from audiences for ages.

How Guy Ritchie’s King Arthur Diverges From Arthurian Myth
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 14, 2017 4:07 pm

to be fair, it actually makes sense to exclude Lancelot and several other characters omitted from the film since they were later additions to the Arthur Cycle. doesn't justify all the other changes, though.

all this kinda makes me wonder if my own idea for a duology based on The Iliad and The Odyssey (possibly a trilogy with a third-film spin-off based on The Aeneid) would have any chance in today's film industry...
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 14, 2017 4:14 pm

@Oshronosaurus wrote:
to be fair, it actually makes sense to exclude Lancelot and several other characters omitted from the film since they were later additions to the Arthur Cycle. doesn't justify all the other changes, though.

all this kinda makes me wonder if my own idea for a duology based on The Iliad and The Odyssey (possibly a trilogy with a third-film spin-off based on The Aeneid) would have any chance in today's film industry...

I actually think it can work, but you'd have to have somebody like Peter Jackson or Guillermo del Toro involved.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 14, 2017 7:15 pm

@Oshronosaurus wrote:

all this kinda makes me wonder if my own idea for a duology based on The Iliad and The Odyssey (possibly a trilogy with a third-film spin-off based on The Aeneid) would have any chance in today's film industry...

I'm curious; have you written a script (or two) for a film treatment for The Iliad and The Odyssey? If so, then colour me intrigued! I would love to see a fully fleshed out version of those stories that embraced the mythological subtext.

Though, I'd have to agree with Rhedo on this one, this would be the kind of project that would lend itself well to Del Toro and Jackson, but since there's only two of them (and I have no idea what PJ's next directing project is going to be) it's best to keep such a potentially great film out of reach for now.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 14, 2017 7:40 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Oshronosaurus wrote:

all this kinda makes me wonder if my own idea for a duology based on The Iliad and The Odyssey (possibly a trilogy with a third-film spin-off based on The Aeneid) would have any chance in today's film industry...

I'm curious; have you written a script (or two) for a film treatment for The Iliad and The Odyssey? If so, then colour me intrigued! I would love to see a fully fleshed out version of those stories that embraced the mythological subtext.

Though, I'd have to agree with Rhedo on this one, this would be the kind of project that would lend itself well to Del Toro and Jackson, but since there's only two of them (and I have no idea what PJ's next directing project is going to be) it's best to keep such a potentially great film out of reach for now.

Even more so considering how the last Greek myth based movies that I remember, Revenge of the Titans and the 2 Hercules movies that came out in 2014, did so poorly. It's mind-boggling how hard it is for Hollywood to make a respectable swords-and-sandles movie or a King Arthur/any medieval movie. It's not that hard with all the material you have at your disposal. Even if you miscast most of your acting crew, everything else could carry your movie to a decent profit.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 15, 2017 4:46 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:



I'm curious; have you written a script (or two) for a film treatment for The Iliad and The Odyssey? If so, then colour me intrigued! I would love to see a fully fleshed out version of those stories that embraced the mythological subtext.

Though, I'd have to agree with Rhedo on this one, this would be the kind of project that would lend itself well to Del Toro and Jackson, but since there's only two of them (and I have no idea what PJ's next directing project is going to be) it's best to keep such a potentially great film out of reach for now.

Even more so considering how the last Greek myth based movies that I remember, Revenge of the Titans and the 2 Hercules movies that came out in 2014, did so poorly. It's mind-boggling how hard it is for Hollywood to make a respectable swords-and-sandles movie or a King Arthur/any medieval movie. It's not that hard with all the material you have at your disposal. Even if you miscast most of your acting crew, everything else could carry your movie to a decent profit.
yeah, the problem of underperforming would definitely be getting to me if it went through since it'd mean the Odyssey movie--the one i'd really like to see made--wouldn't get to the screen. part of why i have some low-budget options in mind for parts of it where, instead of relying overly-much on CGI to portray various supernatural elements, demigods would (for example) be shown as having warpaint/tattoos representing their divine parents and, as i'm currently writing it, the gods would/could be used more like Old Georgie in Cloud Atlas, just appearing out of nowhere, distorted voices and a bit out of focus and no one really acknowledges that they're there but they whisper in mortals' ears to manipulate them and that's how the Trojan War starts
@BarrytheOnyx wrote:



I'm curious; have you written a script (or two) for a film treatment for The Iliad and The Odyssey? If so, then colour me intrigued! I would love to see a fully fleshed out version of those stories that embraced the mythological subtext.

Though, I'd have to agree with Rhedo on this one, this would be the kind of project that would lend itself well to Del Toro and Jackson, but since there's only two of them (and I have no idea what PJ's next directing project is going to be) it's best to keep such a potentially great film out of reach for now.
for the first draft of the Iliad script itself, (haven't tried at the Odyssey or Aeneid yet) it's only just gotten off Ithaca and i'm a teeny bit stuck with a scene establishing the Trojans as antagonists but not villains (except for Paris, who is unambiguously villainous here--he's basically mind-controlling Helen) but i've developed plenty of ideas for the larger narrative, including for how characters are portrayed (namely costumes for the gods and demigods, including some low-budget options, and an idea for "ethnic casting" where most of the Greeks would ideally be played by actual Greeks but giving leeway for theater traditions--namely, Scottish Spartans--and the Trojans would ideally be played by either Italians or Turks, the former because they're ancestral to the Romans and the latter because Troy was in Turkey). the idea going in is to fully embrace the original myths while slightly updating them for modern audiences such as the values dissonance of "oh, Penelope can't be with anyone even though they can reasonably expect Odysseus to be dead 'cuz she's a woman but Odysseus can have all the sex he wants" being redone as him essentially being forced into it by Circe and then Calypso (e.g., female-on-male rape; a theme of the Iliad and Odyssey movies may well be about consent since there's also the whole thing with Helen being mind-controlled by Paris which also constitutes rape if they ever did it). i imagine, if i ever complete this first draft and managed to get it going, i'd hopefully then collaborate on streamlining it with some professional screenwriters and hope i'd have finished at least my first book before this. probably wishful thinking but i'd want to have at least some creative control and at least propose my ideas for costume design, makeup, and special effects rather than getting some cliche amalgamated ancient/medieval outfits like you see in 300Clash of the TitansGods of Egypt, and now in King Arthur: Legend of the Sword as well.

oh, and i also have the idea of basing some of the props on actual artifacts found in and around the site of Troy, like the purported Jewels of Helen being a gift to her from Paris that she rips off at the end when she snaps out of the mind-control and Agamemnon have a samurai-like face mask based on the Mask of Agamemnon, just for a bit of cool-factor Wink Agamemnon would be a bastard here like he was in Troy but Menelaus is much more respectable, happily married to Helen, and Odysseus is the concerted main protagonist and even kind of an opposite to Paris since they're both archers
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 15, 2017 5:26 pm

It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

Oh and it's a WB movie...

I honestly like WB. So having them struggle like this is really sad. They must really be counting on Wonder Woman and Justice League now.

And once again, the overall boss of Sony, Kaz Hirai, says that the American movie branch still isn't up for sale.

I guess they really are taking the possibility of merging it and the video game division into one big media division.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 15, 2017 5:52 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

Oh and it's a WB movie...

I honestly like WB. So having them struggle like this is really sad. They must really be counting on Wonder Woman and Justice League now.

For a while, Warner Bros were my favourite studio. I used to like Disney and Universal more in my childhood years, but both of them suffered a step down in quality (with some exceptions) in the 2000s and I got more into WB. Now, Disney is on their A-game, Universal is kinda in the middle, but Warner Bros keep running into brick walls. I think Wonder Woman and Justice League will be profitable, but only insofar that their audience appeal still outweighs the critical reception. Despite their many, many flaws (especially those of Suicide Squad), these DC movies do make money.

Honestly, the idea of a King Arthur movie series (preferably a trilogy) is not inherently stupid if the right people and the right approach is provided. We often bring up Peter Jackson as the kind of director to make these kinds of adventure or fantasy movies come alive, but that's exactly what this proposed Arthur franchise lacked. Someone at the studio thought that nobody wanted to see an "old-fashioned" King Arthur but another revisionist take in the mythology. And the fact that they did not commit to a single vision, "old fashioned" or "revisionist", proves that their hearts were never in it.

While I love the movie Excalibur, that's also a polarizing movie, I tried to show it to my brother once and he asked me to stop the movie less than five minutes into it. It was really embarrassing because I thought he would get into a more faithful Arthur adaptation, and it forced me to conclude that there should be a new King Arthur film or films that spanned generations like LotR managed to do.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 15, 2017 6:27 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

Oh and it's a WB movie...

I honestly like WB. So having them struggle like this is really sad. They must really be counting on Wonder Woman and Justice League now.

For a while, Warner Bros were my favourite studio. I used to like Disney and Universal more in my childhood years, but both of them suffered a step down in quality (with some exceptions) in the 2000s and I got more into WB. Now, Disney is on their A-game, Universal is kinda in the middle, but Warner Bros keep running into brick walls. I think Wonder Woman and Justice League will be profitable, but only insofar that their audience appeal still outweighs the critical reception. Despite their many, many flaws (especially those of Suicide Squad), these DC movies do make money.

Honestly, the idea of a King Arthur movie series (preferably a trilogy) is not inherently stupid if the right people and the right approach is provided. We often bring up Peter Jackson as the kind of director to make these kinds of adventure or fantasy movies come alive, but that's exactly what this proposed Arthur franchise lacked. Someone at the studio thought that nobody wanted to see an "old-fashioned" King Arthur but another revisionist take in the mythology. And the fact that they did not commit to a single vision, "old fashioned" or "revisionist", proves that their hearts were never in it.

While I love the movie Excalibur, that's also a polarizing movie, I tried to show it to my brother once and he asked me to stop the movie less than five minutes into it. It was really embarrassing because I thought he would get into a more faithful Arthur adaptation, and it forced me to conclude that there should be a new King Arthur film or films that spanned generations like LotR managed to do.

So far, Disney is 1 for me. I'm only putting WB ahead of Universal because of how they still have some form of identity and how they are at least trying for the long term game. Universal, as I said before, doesn't have as much as people really think they really do. Fox, I have a lot of respect for since they have suffered a lot of punishment, much of which their own doing, at yet they still come out swinging hard and hit a lot of home runs and many grand slams.The fact that they were a very profitable company under Tom Rothman and managed to be a much better one after he left is proof of just how resilient Fox is. Lionsgate has continued it's status as a bomb factory via Power Rangers. Paramount, who knows. Sony...yeah...

Sometimes, you just have to embrace the source material in order to be successful. Not saying you can't be successful by not doing so-the Keaton/Burton Batman movies-but those are few and far between nowadays.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 15, 2017 6:34 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

The medieval genre in general is worn out, especially in America. Harry Potter, LotR, the Hobbit, the plethora of medieval video games (elder scrolls/skyrim, dark souls, witcher, dragon age) and the Game of Thrones TV show have over saturated the market. The medieval theme needs a break and it's why I think King Arthur is flopping; I seen the trailers and it just looked like a generic middle ages movie with nothing special or note worthy.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Tue May 16, 2017 7:10 am

Zac Efron will play Ted Bundy in the upcoming psychological thriller, Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil And Vile.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Tue May 16, 2017 1:42 pm

Yeah im sure people will take him seriously in that.

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Tue May 16, 2017 7:20 pm

From what I've seen, the negative responses to 'The Emoji Movie' far, far, far overnumber the positives.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Tue May 16, 2017 10:02 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
From what I've seen, the negative responses to 'The Emoji Movie' far, far, far overnumber the positives.

Yep. I wonder if it'll be profitable or another Sony bomb? 

I really wish they'd fire everyone in charge of the film division tbh. I used to love everything Sony put out.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Wed May 17, 2017 3:10 am

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
From what I've seen, the negative responses to 'The Emoji Movie' far, far, far overnumber the positives.

Excellent...

I know I said this on FB earlier, but if there is to be any collective decision making made this year on behalf of all film goers (and humans) its NOT to give Sony a single cent for this dreck.

And to think, the MLP: Friendship is Magic movie was almost produced and distributed by these clowns before Lionsgate picked up the production.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 18, 2017 1:06 pm

‘Goosebumps’ Sequel Heading to ‘Horrorland’!

Writer Describes ‘Mortal Kombat’ Reboot as Ultra Violent Version of ‘The Avengers’

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 18, 2017 4:19 pm

The James Bond franchise is in legal trouble again.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Fri May 19, 2017 8:57 pm

“Mamma Mia: Here We Go Again!” the sequel to the original Mamma Mia! will come out on July 20, 2018.

Who asked for this? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 21, 2017 2:34 pm

Suicide Squad’s David Ayer to Direct the Scarface Remake
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/850527-suicide-squads-david-ayer-to-direct-the-scarface-remake#0Wh9ZltJ0D4W4Myx.99

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Sun May 21, 2017 3:01 pm

@Dead2009 wrote:
Suicide Squad’s David Ayer to Direct the Scarface Remake
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/850527-suicide-squads-david-ayer-to-direct-the-scarface-remake#0Wh9ZltJ0D4W4Myx.99

If they're trying to do something stylish, it might not be a bad choice for a modern take, but after Suicide Squad, I can't say I have much faith in it.

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 22, 2017 4:05 pm

The summer movie season has just begun and the box office revenues are already down 10% from 2016 and 20% from 2015.

In other words, except for Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2., all other summer movies this month have either underperformed (Alien: Covenant) or just outright bombed.

And we haven't even ended May yet.

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 22, 2017 6:06 pm

Personally I think it's fine for Tom Holland to play a young Nathan Drake. But they don't give any indication that they plan to switch actors if there is a sequel. And personally I don't see Tom growing into Nathan Drake. He seems like a great actor but he has too much of a baby face. 

And that's the other issue. I don't know how many fans really want to start this franchise with a whole movie about a young Drake to begin with. Personally I certainly don't. The thing I loved about Nathan Drake is that he was some guy in his 30's that was a little immature but still a serious adult  treasure hunter.  

Sully should be played by Tom Hanks, since he's already played the role once in the Film "Sully" and did an amazing job.

But then again this is Sony pictures, and this is a video game movie so it already has two huge strikes against it as far as turning into a franchise and being successful.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 22, 2017 6:51 pm

Hmmm, there is a theory that they could have Holland play Drake in other films as he gets older. Similar to how they did it with Harry Potter. Also, both Spider-Man and the Uncharted movie are at Columbia Pictures (aka Sony...) so it might not be too much of a hassle for the studio if they wanted to move Holland between properties.

Still, best take this theorizing with a pinch of salt. I like Tom, he looks to be a great Spidey, but he's not my No. 1 pick for Nate either. I hope they find someone who is definitely more experienced than Tom and fits the action role better. Plus I'm not sure he's likely to grow into the Drake fans know and love, so I'm sure other options are being discussed.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 22, 2017 7:03 pm

I still have no hope for this. Video game movies have a long, sad, sometimes comically bad, history. I love Super Mario Bros. as my favorite 'It's so bad, it's good' movie, but I can't deny that it's the dumbest movie ever made. Besides, a lot of the GA would simply consider it a Tomb Raider knock-off.

At the age of 87, Clint Eastwood is considering a return to acting.

Well, if Abe Vigoda can act into his 90's, I don't see why Clint Eastwood can't do the same thing.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 22, 2017 7:24 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Hmmm, there is a theory that they could have Holland play Drake in other films as he gets older. Similar to how they did it with Harry Potter. Also, both Spider-Man and the Uncharted movie are at Columbia Pictures (aka Sony...) so it might not be too much of a hassle for the studio if they wanted to move Holland between properties.

Still, best take this theorizing with a pinch of salt. I like Tom, he looks to be a great Spidey, but he's not my No. 1 pick for Nate either. I hope they find someone who is definitely more experienced than Tom and fits the action role better. Plus I'm not sure he's likely to grow into the Drake fans know and love, so I'm sure other options are being discussed.

Your last sentence is essentially my problem with him. No hate on the guy but he's got a young baby face and voice. Let's just imagine the movie was totally successful. I don't see him growing into that role in 2-3 years(even 5 years)  and becoming a full on adult Drake that is convincing.

I know people are going to have their different opinions but I think Collider put it best when they said a lot of fans didn't exactly envision a movie about a teenage Drake to kick things off. 

I can't help but feel that in the pit of my stomach The conversation at Dony went like this. 

 "How can we make an uncharted movie successful??? Ohhh! Tom Holland as Spider-Man looks successful! Let's try and bank on his popularity and make him a young drake!"
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Mon May 22, 2017 7:25 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
I still have no hope for this. Video game movies have a long, sad, sometimes comically bad, history. I love Super Mario Bros. as my favorite 'It's so bad, it's good' movie, but I can't deny that it's the dumbest movie ever made. Besides, a lot of the GA would simply consider it a Tomb Raider knock-off.

At the age of 87, Clint Eastwood is considering a return to acting.

Well, if Abe Vigoda can act into his 90's, I don't see why Clint Eastwood can't do the same thing.

Well he's still directing them so I don't see why not.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Tue May 23, 2017 7:58 pm

I imagine Rhedo would like this; Universal could well be jumping the gun as far as their proposed Monsters Cinematic Universe is concerned, as well as a clear look at how studios growing too ambitious ultimately fail. And Sony... well nothing new here. But it IS interesting how Universal could potentially hurt themselves if The Mummy falls short.

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Tue May 23, 2017 8:28 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
I imagine Rhedo would like this; Universal could well be jumping the gun as far as their proposed Monsters Cinematic Universe is concerned, as well as a clear look at how studios growing too ambitious ultimately fail. And Sony... well nothing new here. But it IS interesting how Universal could potentially hurt themselves if The Mummy falls short.


Thank you. I do like this. Smile

I never had much faith in Universal's Monsterverse. I just think that The Mummy was a product of the times and has been overexposed via the Tomb Raider games. As for Black Lagoon, that too is also a product of the times. With Dracula, Wolfman, Invisible Man, those could work, but only if you know what you're doing. I love Dracula 1992 since it makes a perfect balance of history and legend together. Dracula: Untold botched that. And I have little faith in The Mummy. I can't help but wonder how many people at Universal thinks the same way I do about that company but don't as much power to change anything.

With Sony, given how they've always had the best interest of Spider-Man at heart, they actually have a better chance to succeed. Spider-Man and his foes (most of them anyway) are not as constrained by the time periods that they were made in.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 2:47 pm

@Megaspino2 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

The medieval genre in general is worn out, especially in America. Harry Potter, LotR, the Hobbit, the plethora of medieval video games (elder scrolls/skyrim, dark souls, witcher, dragon age) and the Game of Thrones TV show have over saturated the market. The medieval theme needs a break and it's why I think King Arthur is flopping; I seen the trailers and it just looked like a generic middle ages movie with nothing special or note worthy.

None of those are medieval though, but strict fantasy. It's the generic fantasy genre that's worn out, not only in films but in books as well. Add into it the fairy tale adaptations aimed for adults, you know Grimm Tales etc, and it all blends together.

As for actual middle ages films, there have been some original and fresh this decade. Black Death starring Sean Bean was quite good for example, I should watch it again some day. Again it took quite few liberties but in contrast to non-accuracy of most other films, they at least attempted to try.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 2:54 pm

Mistral wrote:
@Megaspino2 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

The medieval genre in general is worn out, especially in America. Harry Potter, LotR, the Hobbit, the plethora of medieval video games (elder scrolls/skyrim, dark souls, witcher, dragon age) and the Game of Thrones TV show have over saturated the market. The medieval theme needs a break and it's why I think King Arthur is flopping; I seen the trailers and it just looked like a generic middle ages movie with nothing special or note worthy.

None of those are medieval though, but strict fantasy. It's the generic fantasy genre that's worn out, not only in films but in books as well. Add into it the fairy tale adaptations aimed for adults, you know Grimm Tales etc, and it all blends together.

As for actual middle ages films, there have been some original and fresh this decade. Black Death starring Sean Bean was quite good for example, I should watch it again some day. Again it took quite few liberties but in contrast to non-accuracy of most other films, they at least attempted to try.
Aside from Harry Potter, though, they do all have a medieval setting, using medieval technology and battle tactics. That's what I think he was getting at.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 2:57 pm

@CT-1138 wrote:
Mistral wrote:
@Megaspino2 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
It's official. The King Arthur movie is going to lose uo to $150 million dollars.

The medieval genre in general is worn out, especially in America. Harry Potter, LotR, the Hobbit, the plethora of medieval video games (elder scrolls/skyrim, dark souls, witcher, dragon age) and the Game of Thrones TV show have over saturated the market. The medieval theme needs a break and it's why I think King Arthur is flopping; I seen the trailers and it just looked like a generic middle ages movie with nothing special or note worthy.

None of those are medieval though, but strict fantasy. It's the generic fantasy genre that's worn out, not only in films but in books as well. Add into it the fairy tale adaptations aimed for adults, you know Grimm Tales etc, and it all blends together.

As for actual middle ages films, there have been some original and fresh this decade. Black Death starring Sean Bean was quite good for example, I should watch it again some day. Again it took quite few liberties but in contrast to non-accuracy of most other films, they at least attempted to try.
Aside from Harry Potter, though, they do all have a medieval setting, using medieval technology and battle tactics. That's what I think he was getting at.

Medieval oriented/influenced fantasy, yes, but not actual middle ages.

These should be made into films, they're fresh from the old rehashed fantasy cliches:
http://bookriot.com/2014/07/11/4-fantasy-novels-set-medieval-europe/
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 6:08 pm

Boss Baby Sequel in the Works for 2021
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/852609-boss-baby-sequel-in-the-works-for-2021#QZFSbgKE7dMCcAsd.99

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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 6:12 pm

@Dead2009 wrote:
Boss Baby Sequel in the Works for 2021
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/852609-boss-baby-sequel-in-the-works-for-2021#QZFSbgKE7dMCcAsd.99

Dreamworks made Prince Of Egypt and yet THIS is the best they can do?!

And once again, my anti-Universal mindset is even more entrenched, even more justified, and even larger then before.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 6:50 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Dead2009 wrote:
Boss Baby Sequel in the Works for 2021
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/852609-boss-baby-sequel-in-the-works-for-2021#QZFSbgKE7dMCcAsd.99

Dreamworks made Prince Of Egypt and yet THIS is the best they can do?!

And once again, my anti-Universal mindset is even more entrenched, even more justified, and even larger then before.  

I'm starting to feel the same way. Back when DreamWorks had autonomy, and were a young studio, this kind of junk would have been considered unthinkable. It makes me wonder just what kind of management Universal has to become entrenched in this mindset, because it's a far cry from their 90s success years.
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 7:05 pm

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Dead2009 wrote:
Boss Baby Sequel in the Works for 2021
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/852609-boss-baby-sequel-in-the-works-for-2021#QZFSbgKE7dMCcAsd.99

Dreamworks made Prince Of Egypt and yet THIS is the best they can do?!

And once again, my anti-Universal mindset is even more entrenched, even more justified, and even larger then before.  

I'm starting to feel the same way. Back when DreamWorks had autonomy, and were a young studio, this kind of junk would have been considered unthinkable. It makes me wonder just what kind of management Universal has to become entrenched in this mindset, because it's a far cry from their 90s success years.

This is in many ways worse then Rothman at Fox. Say what you want, but at least he managed to make Fox profitable on a constant basis when he ruled. After the JP rights go back to the Crichton estate, if Universal doesn't get them back, then they are looking at major trouble. I have no faith in their Monsterverse and the F&F franchise is going to end eventually. What else to they have? The only thing I can think of is the new Grinch movie, which may be the start of a rebooted Dr. Seuss movie franchise. And given how bad they botched it the last time...yeah...
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 7:30 pm

@Dead2009 wrote:
Boss Baby Sequel in the Works for 2021
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/852609-boss-baby-sequel-in-the-works-for-2021#QZFSbgKE7dMCcAsd.99
oh for f*ck's sake...
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PostSubject: Re: General Movie Discussion   Thu May 25, 2017 7:47 pm

I literally have no idea what Boss Baby is. I'm probably blessed

The only CGI-animations I've seen from this decade are Frozen and Toy Story 3. And I'm also half way through Gnomeo & Juliet, which sucks ass, but I have to finish it some day because it's one of the last Emily Blunt films on my list. I think there's also a sequel coming out, which is dreadful. Those kind of films are just the kind of lazy unimaginative garbage I despise when it comes to modern animation and family films.

I also still want to see Tangled and the subsequent short films, before I check if the new series on Disney Channel is worth watching

Doubt I'll see Frozen 2. But Toy Story 4, of course. As I've said before, somehow they haven't missed a beat yet, and every film has been great. Really hope the new one doesn't break the chain and become Kingdom of the Crystal Whatever of the series. Will be sad without Potato Head, but what can you do...
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