General Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom News Thread V.1

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Mistral wrote:

I also see the line of "Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series" being a silent middle finger towards me, but hey, it's not like I've argued against that misconception million times already so why repeat that all again.

I really don't think it was meant towards you, but towards the producers and directors that made JP3.

Oh okay. But even in JP3s case I don't think they were trying something different for differences sake either. It was just a result of different things going on in the background. We know of the numerous rewrites and battles behind the scenes. And IIRC Laura Dern wasn't brought in until very, very late in the production.

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Mistral wrote:

I also see the line of "Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series" being a silent middle finger towards me, but hey, it's not like I've argued against that misconception million times already so why repeat that all again.

I really don't think it was meant towards you, but towards the producers and directors that made JP3.

Oh okay. But even in JP3s case I don't think they were trying something different for differences sake either. It was just a result of different things going on in the background. We know of the numerous rewrites and battles behind the scenes. And IIRC Laura Dern wasn't brought in until very, very late in the production.

That might be true, but considering the heavy-handed, some could even say clumsy, way how they did so on so many things, the Spinosaurus, the new raptors, etc, it sure feels like they were trying to be different for the sake of being different, so you can't blame people for thinking that was the case.

I've just picked up where I left off a few hours ago, and Mistral's post about what I said earlier about "different for different's sake".

First of all: No. It was never intended as a "silent middle finger" to you and your views on the franchise's creative choices. I would appreciate it if you didn't think of me as that kind of fan, because no matter what none of what is said here is worth coming to blows over no matter how much we might disagree.

Alright I might have over analyzed the situation, sorry for my part.

As for the JP3 thing again, the way I see is that generally speaking the main critisism for the film has been that it actually didn't try to be different enough, but rather ended up just being massively generic monster action film. The case by case details that anger fans, such as the things Rhedo points out, don't really matter as much in large scheme of things - after all there are even considerable demographics that actually prefer JP3 over TLW. Now, while soft rebooting of JW certainly did not take any more chances either, I mean personally I would argue even less so, audiences rather took that than another generic sequel a la JP3. It was closer to what most wanted, a la Jurassic Park and nostalgic setting again.

Mistral wrote:

Alright I might have over analyzed the situation, sorry for my part.

As for the JP3 thing again, the way I see is that generally speaking the main critisism for the film has been that it actually didn't try to be different enough, but rather ended up just being massively generic monster action film. The case by case details that anger fans, such as the things Rhedo points out, don't really matter as much in large scheme of things - after all there are even considerable demographics that actually prefer JP3 over TLW.

Those people are clearly in the minority. The fact that a large amount of people still want a T. rex vs Spinosaurus rematch with the T. rex winning alone dismantles that. Not only that but many people like TLW over JP3. Here's the results from Box Office Mojo.

TLW: $618,638,999

JP3: $368,780,809

The only reason why JP3 made that much was because of name recognition and because it was a mediocre movie that came out in a year (2001) of outright crappy ones. If you put it up against a year that didn't have a quality slump, it would have flopped. Not only that, but I've seen a lot of people talk about how good TLW is over JP3 and JW. With JP3, the mindset of it being a bad movie that didn't deserve to make as much as it did is still very much alive. Maybe marginally better, but only a paper thin edge.

Box office number comparisons are meaningless if not adjusted to inflation. Even JW falls far behind JP in actual grossing. However, since I'm not aware of chart that would show worldwide adjusted to inflation rates, only US domestic (where the gap between TLW & JP3 is actually smaller), we cannot directly compare TLW and JP3 in actual numbers.

We can of course still make rough comparisons between the two, and in those terms JP3 did little bit than third or so less than TLW. But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that? You could argue that people didn't want to be "betrayed" again (no matter what we may or may think of the sequels), especially fueled further when the premise of the film and once again mediocre reviews came out.

The rest of your post indicating that the film actually got more than it "deserved" I see it as your own opinion (which is fine)

Honestly I would say JP3 also did worse because of the perception of the franchise back then. A lot of people don't like TLW. The fanbase does, and the general public liked it more than 3. But i still think they consider TLW to be pretty mediocre. More people appreciate it in retrospect but If you back to when it was first released and look I was shocked by some of the reactions.

Atleast in my experience TLW was considered to be an okay or mediocre movie that in no way lived up to the original when it came out. So people probably weren't too high on the idea of 3. And then it came out and people disliked it.

I'm not trying to argue that more people prefer JP3 because that's not true, but I think people have some rose tinted glasses on when they think of how the general public actually felt and feels about TLW.  

And I'm not so sure about the Spino vs Rex fight. I think the Rex could have won and most people would have most of the same issues. I've personally never really seen anyone outside the fanbase clamor for that rematch. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

Edit "But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that?"

Yes @Mistral that was exactly what I was trying to say. I don't know how big. But I think it played some part in it.

Troyal1 wrote:

Honestly I would say JP3 also did worse because of the perception of the franchise back then. A lot of people don't like TLW. The fanbase does, and the general public liked it more than 3. But i still think they consider TLW to be pretty mediocre. More people appreciate it in retrospect but If you back to when it was first released and look I was shocked by some of the reactions.

Atleast in my experience TLW was considered to be an okay or mediocre movie that in no way lived up to the original when it came out. So people probably weren't too high on the idea of 3. And then it came out and people disliked it.

I'm not trying to argue that more people prefer JP3 because that's not true, but I think people have some rose tinted glasses on when they think of how the general public actually felt and feels about TLW.  

And I'm not so sure about the Spino vs Rex fight. I think the Rex could have won and most people would have most of the same issues. I've personally never really seen anyone outside the fanbase clamor for that rematch. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

Edit "But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that?"

Yes @Mistral that was exactly what I was trying to say. I don't know how big. But I think it played some part in it.

Precisely!

And indeed we must remember that we are talking about the general public here, not the fans.

Anyway all this discussion would've suited my other thread pretty nicely
https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t937-general-audiences-reaction-to-the-sequels

I really wish we could get some JW2 news up in here. Atleast throw us a title.

Sigh

Mistral wrote:

Box office number comparisons are meaningless if not adjusted to inflation. Even JW falls far behind JP in actual grossing. However, since I'm not aware of chart that would show worldwide adjusted to inflation rates, only US domestic (where the gap between TLW & JP3 is actually smaller), we cannot directly compare TLW and JP3 in actual numbers.

We can of course still make rough comparisons between the two, and in those terms JP3 did little bit than third or so less than TLW. But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that? You could argue that people didn't want to be "betrayed" again (no matter what we may or may think of the sequels), especially fueled further when the premise of the film and once again mediocre reviews came out.

Troyal1 wrote:

Honestly I would say JP3 also did worse because of the perception of the franchise back then. A lot of people don't like TLW. The fanbase does, and the general public liked it more than 3. But i still think they consider TLW to be pretty mediocre. More people appreciate it in retrospect but If you back to when it was first released and look I was shocked by some of the reactions.

At least in my experience TLW was considered to be an okay or mediocre movie that in no way lived up to the original when it came out. So people probably weren't too high on the idea of 3. And then it came out and people disliked it.

I'm not trying to argue that more people prefer JP3 because that's not true, but I think people have some rose tinted glasses on when they think of how the general public actually felt and feels about TLW.

And I'm not so sure about the Spino vs Rex fight. I think the Rex could have won and most people would have most of the same issues. I've personally never really seen anyone outside the fanbase clamor for that rematch. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

I don't disagree that the GA was a mixed bag, but one would have thought that the mostly positive reaction from the fans would have factored in to all that. To just blow them off via JP3 was a really boneheaded mistake that the producers made. If the higher ups didn't want to betray the GA, then they did so in the dumbest way possible by throwing the fans under the bus. That rarely works. And even if it does, then they always have to make it up in a faithful way down the line. Look at how Fox got back the fans of the X-Men movie series via bringing back Byran Singer and making Days Of Future Past, which ret-conned X3 out of existence and with the recent Deadpool movie, which ret-conned much, though not all, of Wolverine: Origins out of existence as well.

I still see more people having a positive mindset of TLW.

Yea it was a really dumb mistake, and I agree with you that more people definitely prefer TLW. But I'm still not so sure about how much more the GA likes it over 3(in terms of how they would rate it). I wish we could do a massive poll asking people in retrospect of how they view TLW. I'm pretty confident  it would be more positive than it was on release.

They rushed JP3. It's true. But I loved that film. And I know it's something we are never going to agree on.

But I wonder If people in retrospect would look at 3 in a better light down the line? I'm not saying they'd say they would love it. But I wonder if the majority would be a bit more positive overall.

And I believe JW is definitely the most well received sequel among the GA. Although I badly wish TLW could hold that crown.

Troyal1 wrote:

Yea it was a really dumb mistake, and I agree with you that more people definitely prefer TLW. But I'm still not so sure about how much more the GA likes it over 3(in terms of how they would rate it). I wish we could do a massive poll asking people in retrospect of how they view TLW. I'm pretty confident  it would be more positive than it was on release.

They rushed JP3. It's true. But I loved that film. And I know it's something we are never going to agree on.

But I wonder If people in retrospect would look at 3 in a better light down the line? I'm not saying they'd say they would love it. But I wonder if the majority would be a bit more positive overall.

And I believe JW is definitely the most well received sequel among the GA. Although I badly wish TLW could hold that crown.

I think that it's possible that TLW could overtake JW as the most well received. As for JP3, I think it's now being slightly better looked at, but it simply has too many flaws, many of them being pretty big ones, to ever be looked at as other then a mediocre to barely average movie.

Had to check for a minute just to make sure I wasn't in this thread.

https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t937-general-audiences-reaction-to-the-sequels#12623

Carry on.

So far, only Bryce is doing teasers. This secrecy is making me angry. Hope the title leaks soon.

Remind me again, is Chris Pratt on set right now? I'm confused with the whole IW thing.

Given Bryce's hints, I would say so.

Do u guys think with Pratt now back in the US until at least mid March & then off again in late April to promote GOTG2 until mid May that his screen time in the sequel won't actually be that big for a main character? I think Claire will be the main leading role again this time as I think Colin once said ages ago.

dance2nite wrote:

Do u guys think with Pratt now back in the US until at least mid March & then off again in late April to promote GOTG2 until mid May that his screen time in the sequel won't actually be that big for a main character? I think Claire will be the main leading role again this time as I think Colin once said ages ago.

Hmmmm

yeah following the pattern of JP

1. Main cast
2. 1 lead stars prominently
3. The other lead stars.

So Claire could star prominently here and Pratt could be cameo/reduced importance? The thing is that it has to be organic to the story. Also guess who else is in the states right now? Goldblum was spotted at the Oscars on sunday.

Sickle_Claw wrote:

dance2nite wrote:

Do u guys think with Pratt now back in the US until at least mid March & then off again in late April to promote GOTG2 until mid May that his screen time in the sequel won't actually be that big for a main character? I think Claire will be the main leading role again this time as I think Colin once said ages ago.

Hmmmm

yeah following the pattern of JP

1. Main cast
2. 1 lead stars prominently
3. The other lead stars.

So Claire could star prominently here and Pratt could be cameo/reduced importance? The thing is that it has to be organic to the story. Also guess who else is in the states right now? Goldblum was spotted at the Oscars on sunday.

\

Well I do think Owen will still have a decent role, maybe just a bit smaller then his JW role. Claire is the main character of JW & acccording to Colin will continue to be so for the new trilogy. Also I wish people would give up on Goldblum, there is nothing to suggest he is even in it at this point + putting him in would only be fan service, nothing more...

dance2nite wrote:

Sickle_Claw wrote:

dance2nite wrote:

Do u guys think with Pratt now back in the US until at least mid March & then off again in late April to promote GOTG2 until mid May that his screen time in the sequel won't actually be that big for a main character? I think Claire will be the main leading role again this time as I think Colin once said ages ago.

Hmmmm

yeah following the pattern of JP

1. Main cast
2. 1 lead stars prominently
3. The other lead stars.

So Claire could star prominently here and Pratt could be cameo/reduced importance? The thing is that it has to be organic to the story. Also guess who else is in the states right now? Goldblum was spotted at the Oscars on sunday.

\

Well I do think Owen will still have a decent role, maybe just a bit smaller then his JW role. Claire is the main character of JW & acccording to Colin will continue to be so for the new trilogy. Also I wish people would give up on Goldblum, there is nothing to suggest he is even in it at this point + putting him in would only be fan service, nothing more...

THANK YOU.

I bolded your comment to say how I feel about the constant fan wishful thinking that he would appear. Honestly, we do not need a 'nostalgic appearance' to make the film good.

ONLY be a fan service? I dont know about that. In the novels he is the major player. And after seeing his involvement and how much he went out of his way in TLW, the character of Ian Maclolm aint going to be sitting at home doing nothing in all of this.

Sickle_Claw wrote:

dance2nite wrote:

Do u guys think with Pratt now back in the US until at least mid March & then off again in late April to promote GOTG2 until mid May that his screen time in the sequel won't actually be that big for a main character? I think Claire will be the main leading role again this time as I think Colin once said ages ago.

Hmmmm

yeah following the pattern of JP

1. Main cast
2. 1 lead stars prominently
3. The other lead stars.

So Claire could star prominently here and Pratt could be cameo/reduced importance? The thing is that it has to be organic to the story. Also guess who else is in the states right now? Goldblum was spotted at the Oscars on sunday.

IAN MALCOLM CONFIRMED. LOL 

Anyway, hope Claire has more screentime than Owen, she's way more interesting IMO.

Also, Malcolm returning is just a fan service. He has no use in this plot, being a math guy what would he do, also his moralistic rants would do nothing, or you guys really think the companies will stop clonning dinosaurs because he said it's wrong?

Exciting times indeed. I'm so pumped.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Also, Malcolm returning is just a fan service. He has no use in this plot, being a math guy what would he do, also his moralistic rants would do nothing, or you guys really think the companies will stop clonning dinosaurs because he said it's wrong?

We already argued over this for pages, do you want to start fight or something?

Mistral wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Also, Malcolm returning is just a fan service. He has no use in this plot, being a math guy what would he do, also his moralistic rants would do nothing, or you guys really think the companies will stop clonning dinosaurs because he said it's wrong?

We already argued over this for pages, do you want to start fight or something?

No I don't, I'm just putting my opinion here over the subject like everyone did. I think it's just an useless fanservice like dance2nite.

I guess that's alright considering I thought JW as whole was useless fanservice.

Anyway it's one of those things that's hard to separate when reading forums, you know personal opinions from trying to argue/state something as fact.

Anyway, Bryce tweeted another pic today with a golf car haha I'm so excited for this movie, I really hope we get a tweet from Bayona or an official pic of something from JW2. Could be Claire's shoes, anything!

I can't wait to start speculating about this movie!

At this point Ive resigned myself to the fact that Bryce is trolling us all and won't really be tweeting anything important.

Or she could be playing us all and leading onto something.

Well, as I always say, if you want something found out you have to find it yourself.

Or hear about it for a decade or two afterwards.

I'd rather not have spoilers/leaks out right now. Or at least none that are unofficial, i.e. those leaked on 4Chan and Reddit. What I've learned over the years is that one disgruntled employee that works at a movie company can inform a lot of people. Just look at how much leaks Fant4stic and GB2016 had and how bad those movies were and performed at the box office. Leaks=trouble.

All I want to know is, who plays Nick van Owen this time around, and how will he contact mainland to get them off the island?

Just kidding. At least I hope I am