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 Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 28, 2017 6:39 pm

Even if it did break ever or make a small profit, Fox has nothing to gain from letting Scott make another prequel. This isn't like how they let George Lucas make the SW prequels. And even if they did, they'd most likely get heavily ret-conned, perhaps even out of existence.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 28, 2017 6:48 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Even if it did break ever or make a small profit, Fox has nothing to gain from letting Scott make another prequel. This isn't like how they let George Lucas make the SW prequels. And even if they did, they'd most likely get heavily ret-conned, perhaps even out of existence.

One difference here too, besides Star Wars still making tons of money even in the case of the worst prequels (AotC), Lucas put up the money for the prequels, FOX just distributed, and I assume advertised. So they really didn't have a lot to lose versus a movie like Covenant.

Mistral wrote:
These films have never done particularly amazing at box office though. Prometheus probably did 'fine' because excluding AVPs it had been 15 years since the last film, and also Scott was returning for the first time and was starting from clean slate again. Also I think the marketing campaign was better.

I think Prometheus may have also had the virtue of bringing in people who had no idea what it was. Not sure about other countries, but besides the talk online, I don't recall any of the marketing materials outright referencing it as an Alien prequel. In fact, I remember talk about changes to the movie that distanced it even more from being an outright prequel at the time, so if that is true, I assume several people saw it without knowing the connection. Covenant, was, well, an Alien film, and while the trailers and marketing may or mat not have pulled some people in, there may have just been a large portion of people that said "Oh another sequel", and not necessarily think of Prometheus, and instead think of Resurrection, or AvP:R and decide to see something else instead.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 28, 2017 9:25 pm

@HennexForest wrote:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4296&p=.htm

Well, Covenant is most likely not going to break even at this point so I suppose the Alien franchise will be shelved once again for another decade or so.  I thought things were finally starting to turn around with Prometheus and Isolation too.  Ugh.

I don't care what anyone says, isolation deserves a sequel!!
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun May 28, 2017 9:30 pm

The first two prequels were merely disappointing for critics and audiences alike, but still received more positive feedback than negative.  ROTS was highly praised by nearly everyone and was called the best Star Wars movie since TESB.  All three films made more than plenty of money to continue to make more films.  I'm not sure why people insist the prequels are terrible all the time, because evidence to the contrary prove otherwise.

Critics may have liked both Prometheus and Covenant, but the general audience did not (especially Covenant).  I think a lot of people also feel burned by Scott's sudden urge to make "Prometheus 2' an Alien movie after all the positive feed back Blomkamp's "Alien 5" was getting.  It just boggles my mind how Fox agreed to the butchering of "Prometheus 2" and the cancelling of "Alien 5" just to make one movie that had no guaranty of making money.  They made a bad call, just like Burke.

@Troyal1 wrote:
@HennexForest wrote:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4296&p=.htm

Well, Covenant is most likely not going to break even at this point so I suppose the Alien franchise will be shelved once again for another decade or so.  I thought things were finally starting to turn around with Prometheus and Isolation too.  Ugh.

I don't care what anyone says, isolation deserves a sequel!!
Damn straight!
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 29, 2017 6:51 am

@HennexForest wrote:
ROTS was highly praised by nearly everyone and was called the best Star Wars movie since TESB.

???

No, just no.

Maybe by very small minority, but not by GA.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 29, 2017 4:40 pm

Mistral wrote:
@HennexForest wrote:
ROTS was highly praised by nearly everyone and was called the best Star Wars movie since TESB.

???

No, just no.

Maybe by very small minority, but not by GA.
When it first came out, it absolutely was. It's sort of the reverse ROTJ, where both final entries of their trilogies are forever intertwined with their predecessors despite their quality. ROTS was easily the best of the prequels and ROTJ was easily the worst of the originals. Even now, there are plenty of times where ROTS ranks above ROTJ in various polls.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 29, 2017 4:58 pm

At the time, I remember some reviews saying it was pretty alright and some people saying it's pretty okay, but most people still dissing. Me and my friend laughed all the way through the film in theater, even if the material wasn't as funny as in Clones.

But in hindsight they weren't as depressing as the Disney films, as concept.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 29, 2017 6:23 pm

Mistral wrote:
At the time, I remember some reviews saying it was pretty alright and some people saying it's pretty okay, but most people still dissing. Me and my friend laughed all the way through the film in theater, even if the material wasn't as funny as in Clones.

But in hindsight they weren't as depressing as the Disney films, as concept.
I remember things differently, but this happened twelve years ago so my memory is at least partially foggy.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon May 29, 2017 6:24 pm

@HennexForest wrote:
Mistral wrote:
At the time, I remember some reviews saying it was pretty alright and some people saying it's pretty okay, but most people still dissing. Me and my friend laughed all the way through the film in theater, even if the material wasn't as funny as in Clones.

But in hindsight they weren't as depressing as the Disney films, as concept.
I remember things differently, but this happened twelve years ago so my memory is at least partially foggy.

I think since those years it's gotten more widespread support, not overwhelmingly but still more than initially.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Tue May 30, 2017 5:17 pm

Well, just got out of Alien: Covenant. It really makes Xenomorphs scary again. I loved it. It actually reminded me of TLW a few times while I was watching it (particularly the use of those giant, Redwood-like trees), and even my Dad thought the Neomorphs acted like Velociraptors. Alien: Covenant does a lot of call backs to both Prometheus and the original Alien movie. It adds nicely to the mythos, but doesn't bog itself down with a lot of blatant references like it could have. I saw a lot of Spielbergian directorial style in Prometheus, and I see a lot of TLW in Alien: Covenant. It's a natural continuation sequel like TLW is, not just a sequel to Prometheus, but a sequel to the franchise in general. I think that Covenant, like Prometheus, will find its appreciation in the years to come. It's a thinking movie, like Prometheus was. It leaves you with thoughts to ponder. It definitely terrified me a couple times. And it's good horror, too. It's bloody, like Michael Myers in space, but it doesn't use cheap jump scares. The shower scene came back into my mind when I took a shower tonight before dinner.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Tue May 30, 2017 6:49 pm

My ratings of the film5s :

1. Alien - 8.5/10
2. Aliens - 8/10
3. Alien 3 - 6/10
4. Alien Resurrection - 5/10
5. Prometheus - 6/10
6. Covenant - 5.5/10


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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:14 pm

Neil Blomkamp says that Alien 5 is dead.

Quote wrote:
I think it’s totally dead, yes. That would be an accurate assumption at this point.

I still wonder if fan outrage between Scott killing this off and explaining the Xenomorphs the way they did in Covenant-not to mention everything else they did wrong-as well as the fact that it's struggling to break even would mean that another prequel never gets made.

Speaking of Covenant struggling...It's made $165 million overall and $64 million domestically.

Mark my words, if a 3rd final prequel gets made, it may bomb. Not only that, but I think these entire prequels will either be like the Star Wars prequels in that they stay as canon but get heavily ret-conned or get outright rendered non-canon.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:27 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Neil Blomkamp says that Alien 5 is dead.

Quote wrote:
I think it’s totally dead, yes. That would be an accurate assumption at this point.

I still wonder if fan outrage between Scott killing this off and explaining the Xenomorphs the way they did in Covenant-not to mention everything else they did wrong-as well as the fact that it's struggling to break even would mean that another prequel never gets made.

Speaking of Covenant struggling...It's made $165 million overall and $64 million domestically.

Mark my words, if a 3rd final prequel gets made, it may bomb. Not only that, but I think these entire prequels will either be like the Star Wars prequels in that they stay as canon but get heavily ret-conned or get outright rendered non-canon.

I wonder if it's possible that Alien 5 can come back if a 3rd one bombs? Or perhaps if Covenant doesn't get a sequel at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:34 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Neil Blomkamp says that Alien 5 is dead.

Quote wrote:
I think it’s totally dead, yes. That would be an accurate assumption at this point.

I still wonder if fan outrage between Scott killing this off and explaining the Xenomorphs the way they did in Covenant-not to mention everything else they did wrong-as well as the fact that it's struggling to break even would mean that another prequel never gets made.

Speaking of Covenant struggling...It's made $165 million overall and $64 million domestically.

Mark my words, if a 3rd final prequel gets made, it may bomb. Not only that, but I think these entire prequels will either be like the Star Wars prequels in that they stay as canon but get heavily ret-conned or get outright rendered non-canon.

I wonder if it's possible that Alien 5 can come back if a 3rd one bombs? Or perhaps if Covenant doesn't get a sequel at all.

If anything else, I see a compromise being far more likely. Blomkamp comes in, but only to ret-con the damage Scott did. And even then, Fox would have to basically fire Scott for that to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:25 pm

All of that retconing would be silly to be honest. If Covenant doesn't get a sequel and or the sequels bomb it would be in Fox's best interest to shelf the Alien movies for a few years (not decades) and reboot the entire series from the ground up.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:37 pm

@Megaspino2 wrote:
All of that retconing would be silly to be honest. If Covenant doesn't get a sequel and or the sequels bomb it would be in Fox's best interest to shelf the Alien movies for a few years (not decades) and reboot the entire series from the ground up.

The Alien franchise has been around for too long and has too many people familiar with it to be rebooted. And given how Aliens is still up in the air in terms of still be canon or not, ret-conning might be the best way to go. Even more so if Scott does remove it from the canon. Besides, if fan backlash forced Fox to allow X3 and Wolverine Origins (or most of it anyway) to be ret-conned out of existence via Days Of Future Past, then I don't see how letting somebody else ret-conning Scott's prequels is out of the question.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:37 pm

I know head canons are sometimes frowned upon if taken too seriously, but I think Alien will be one I take into account. I'll accept Covenant, but only under the assumption that based on the Engineer art in Prometheus, Xenomorphs or something like them existed at some point. David only followed the recipe with what he had until he finally arrived a the Xenomorph again. That way, we can have ancient Xenomorphs, the Xenomorphs crossed over with Predators in time periods before the future, and it doesn't completely ruin the origin of the creature for me in other installments of the franchise.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:50 pm

It looks like the chances of another Alien prequel are officially in big trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:53 pm

Chinese cut of Alien Covenant has more Neomorph but NO xenomorph.... or about 10 seconds. 

https://youtu.be/cUmiGiE15GE

What the F***????
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:57 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
Chinese cut of Alien Covenant has more Neomorph but NO xenomorph.... or about 10 seconds. 

https://youtu.be/cUmiGiE15GE

What the F***????

What I find interesting is that guy says he feels like it might be a cut with more tension...but the Chinese early reviews seemed pretty clear that some of the cuts made the film flow really badly.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:20 pm

It looks like we originally were supposed to get a Neomorph vs. Xenomorph battle after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:25 pm

So I just watched the Assembly Cut of Alien3 for the first time. I don't get the hate for this film. Like it's certainly not the best but its reputation seems a little overblown. One thing I can't stand though was the creature effects. The Dog/Ox Alien looks fine....but whatever green screen effect they used to put it into many scenes was atrocious. I can totally see some hate for the effects. The movie itself though...in my book it feels like a 6, only slightly above average, but not the cinematic abortion lots of people say it is.

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:32 pm

I hate to say it, but could it be that the Alien franchise simply isn't bankable any more?

I mean, big budget, R rated sci-fi films are always a pretty significant risk, considering that you're essentially cutting off a massive chunk of the audience with the rating.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:39 pm

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
I hate to say it, but could it be that the Alien franchise simply isn't bankable any more?

I mean, big budget, R rated sci-fi films are always a pretty significant risk, considering that you're essentially cutting off a massive chunk of the audience with the rating.

I just think that it just needs new blood. Scott has become worse then Lucas. At least Lucas cared when he did the prequels and the modifications to the OT. I'm not sure if Scott still cares anymore. You'd need to ret-con his prequels yet still keep them canon like Disney has done the the SW prequels, but you'd have to kick out Scott first. I saw Doug and Rob Walker's Real Thoughts on AvP and Rob said that Gladiator was the movie that started Scott's decline. He just needs to retire.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:49 pm

Alien: Covenant made roughly $30 million in it's debut in China.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:59 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
Alien: Covenant made roughly $30 million in it's debut in China.
Doesn't help that Chinese censorship butchered the film to pieces.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:23 pm

"If" a sequel is made. The
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:52 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
"If" a sequel is made. The
Spoiler:
 

That's one big "If". And even if it got made, it would either be like the Star Wars prequels were they are still canon, heavily ret-conned or outright removed from the timeline the way the new upcoming Terminator movie, which will be a proper sequel to Terminator 2, will outright remove all other Terminator movies made after T2. And who knows if Fox will even let Scott make it or give the reigns to somebody new due to fan backlash over the recent movie.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:59 pm

I'm pretty sure they are going to let him make one more IMO. I understand it had things in it that were ridiculous and it didn't perform as well as it should. But it got pretty good reviews and I think when all is said and done (home sales) they will have made enough to green light.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:14 pm

@Troyal1 wrote:
I'm pretty sure they are going to let him make one more IMO. I understand it had things in it that were ridiculous and it didn't perform as well as it should. But it got pretty good reviews and I think when all is said and done (home sales) they will have made enough to green light.

But fans hated it. Even though it will make a profit, it's not going to be enough to justify a 3rd prequel in a series that may/may not be removed from the canon. At least Lucas didn't butcher the original Star Wars series like Scott has with the Alien franchise.
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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Yesterday at 5:43 pm

Jake Busey Playing Son of Gary Busey’s ‘Predator 2’ Character in ‘The Predator’!
http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3443844/jake-busey-playing-son-gary-buseys-predator-2-character-predator/

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PostSubject: Re: Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)   Yesterday at 7:10 pm

https://twitter.com/scifiedcom/status/879475105650405376

Olivia Munn's character will battle Yautja in the Predator!

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