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 How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?

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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:56 pm

I don't understand all this fanatism for T.rex, really. Rhedosaurus said people wouldn't mind to see a Trike killing a T.rex, but I'm almost sure the T.rex fanboys would brag about it and try to make Triceratops look inferior like they did with Spino. They took an amazing animal and started to trash it because of a stupid scene. Such a childish behaviour that I even wonder if those guys are dinosaur fans. Doubt it.  "But it was my childhood dinosaur icon" your dinosaur icon was an animal, not a killing machine. Nature is about survival, and when you get to understand that you won't be mad to see a dinosaur getting killed on screen, even if it's your favorite one, bc you understand that it's how nature works.

I think T.rex was build so much as a dinosaur star to GA that it has almost a reputation of a god. I love how in King Kong they made Kong destroy V.rexes, we all know they were basically T.rexes with another name. It was a "hey, it bleeds, see? It's not a god of dinosaurs" scene.

Some people need to learn that T.rex was an animal, and it could "win" or "lose", like it happens with lions and other predators. They don't always win. Hell, most of T.rex records are being broken by other animals, I really don't like this T.rex monopoly on JP franchise. Let other theropods join in, not replace the T.rex but JOIN IN. 

Oh and I'm not a T.rex hater, I don't hate it, I just don't understand some fanatism for it. I always stated how I loved the new redesign of the T.rex, with or without feathers. I think it gives this animal much more identity.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:28 pm

This is why:



But obviously there are many many many other reasons people have too. It's an iconic animal with iconic movie design in any case, probably the most iconic dinosaur as well as most iconic thing in Jurassic Park, that is hard to argue against whatever you or I think of it's redeeming value for sequels.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:37 pm

Nah, T.rex got this fame on movies specially because of JP. They build all the hype for the dinosaur and now it's almost as a god figure. They've been building this since ages, I could say. It's weird because Allosaurus was way more popular, but I think the fossil finds + the size were a big factor for T.rex to be the star for many things. It's a very well know dinosaur, the most popular on GA.

"Most iconic dinosaur" I highly disagree with this. I think this is very subjective.


Other things, yeah, they are true too. This however, doesn't justify fanboyism and trashing another dinosaur species and denying how nature works.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:46 pm

I'm pretty sure T-Rex was already #1 before JP came out, sharing the place with Triceratops and your generic "Brontosaurus" sauropod image. It's in the movies and literature already in the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's as the generic 'carnivore dinosaur'.

Allosaurus was never a "big thing", I mean it was up there but your average Joe wouldn't have known anything about it if asked except that it was probably a dinosaur judging by the -saurus at the end.


Last edited by Mistral on Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:49 pm

I will complete what I said, yeah, it was well know thanks to the fossil finds + it was big + it was one of the last ones way before JP. But in pop culture and movies, JP is the cause of T.rex being a star and an icon like you said. JP made it. The JP design is legendary too. Everyone remembers of a T.rex like the JP one.

Allosaurus was big when it was discovered, it's the first discovered dinosaur as far as I know so YEAH it was super popular too, then the "all mighty" T.rex got all the fame as a carnivore. There are a lot of ancient movies that put Allosaurus as the main carnivore. Valley of Gwangi. Yeah, that T.rex looking retro carnivore is actually an Allosaurus.

https://burrunjor.com/2016/05/26/allosaurus-in-popular-culture/

"Allosaurus is probably the most represented giant meat eating Dinosaur in popular culture after Tyrannosaurus Rex." Smile

Anyone who loves dinosaurs know Allosaurus is one of the most famous carnivores too. So if Joe didn't know who Allosaurus was, well, that's a shame.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:56 pm

The first Allosaurus finding was only in 1869 while Megalosaurus had already been named decades earlier in 1824, with other unnamed discoveries even before that.

As for the rest let's just agree to disagree. The only thing I do agree on is that we don't (or rather shouldn't) need T-Rex for JP5, that has been done to death already
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:01 pm

Damnit, forgot that Megalosaurus was first.  Embarassed It happens I guess.

Oh no problem, you don't need to agree with me. That's why sharing opinions is cool. I don't agree with the majority I guess on T.rex and have a very unpopular opinion.

I know they won't delete it from JP5 so I at least hope I see another theropod join in. There are so many species that deserve to appear, from well know and popular ones to less know.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:07 pm

Yeah forums are place for discussions of different opinions Smile

I-Rex was just a farce IMO, it's really desperate if you can't even have real dinosaurs in your dinosaur series anymore, particularly when there are literally countless options to choose from. But we all know they just wanted ever more bigger and meaner monster and after Spinosaurus you can't really top it of with anything bigger in realms of reality. So now that they in their predictable producers minds wonder how to have even bigger and meaner monster than their artificial I-Rex... something "ordinary" like Allosaurus isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. T-Rex is the ultimate nostalgia / fanservice machine so that's another safe choice of course
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:20 pm

It would be rather redundant to completely omit the Rex and replace it with something that would play literally the exact same role. Would literally add nothing different to the narrative, and would go a long ways toward alienating a sect of the fanbase.

If they really want to do something different, they could add a medium sized carnivore like a Baryonyx or Carnotaurus that could play a different role to the Rex, while still including the dinosaur that most people are paying to see.

More than anything, it should be a balanced approach, more akin to the first film than the other three....Maybe even more so.  The first film, while Rex/Raptor heavy, was able to balance the two carnivores screen time pretty well. TLW was obviously too Rex heavy, JP3 too Spino heavy, and JW too Indominus heavy. Ideally, the runtime for JW would be increased to at least 2 and a half hours to give ample time to include the fan favorites, as well as time to introduce new dinosaurs as well.

Quite frankly, I think any other approach would be foolish. Making it all about the Rex/Raptors again would be a rehash, but omitting the fan favorites would simply be bad business.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:25 pm

Oh I loved I.rex, not because of the hybrid concept but mainly bc she was different and exotic in many ways.  I loved how JW foccused on her, they could have explored why she was crazy like that, show how curious she was after she escaped and how everything was new, it would made her more sympathetic to some people I think. I remember of Tilikum and like to think that I.rex suffered the same thing.

I know they could have put a real dinosaur like Giganotosaurus, maybe with a few modifications made by Wu so it could be more exotic, but yeah.

I wouldn't doubt that they will put a modified T.rex hybrid that is better than the "original" version.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:38 pm

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:
Oh I loved I.rex, not because of the hybrid concept but mainly bc she was different and exotic in many ways.  I loved how JW foccused on her, they could have explored why she was crazy like that, show how curious she was after she escaped and how everything was new, it would made her more sympathetic to some people I think. I remember of Tilikum and like to think that I.rex suffered the same thing.

I know they could have put a real dinosaur like Giganotosaurus, maybe with a few modifications made by Wu so it could be more exotic, but yeah.

I wouldn't doubt that they will put a modified T.rex hybrid that is better than the "original" version.

A Giga would have been kind of redundant to the plot imo. Say what you want about "making up a dinosaur", but it served the plot well and was unique enough to not be just another T. Rex clone. I just don't think they can get away with doing that twice in a row, and simply introducing a different, natural "apex predator" to take that role wouldn't really do anything plot wise. That's why I think a balanced approach to what dinosaurs are implemented in JW2 is the way to go. It pleases everyone, and keeps things fresh throughout the whole film.

I actually didn't mind how the Indominus was implemented at all, I just could have used a touch less of her, if not for any other reason then to leave a bit of mystery to her.

Kinda wish she hadn't been revealed in the global trailer tbh. I feel like keeping her ever so slightly hidden/out of frame until the finale would have given JW as a whole a bit more of a mysterious vibe.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:20 pm

Alright let's put aside my issue of the I-Rex being artificial and constructed solely for plot/film's convenience in the first place. Whatever. But if you ARE going to do it and committed to creating this new beast, why not go wild?

They could have done literally anything to the I-Rex looks wise as it was completely made up. You know very imaginary body features that would've made Godzilla jealous. But it looked just like your generic theropod, only bigger. There are no particularly interesting shapes in it's body, no interesting colors, nothing that makes it stand up from the crowd. I guess the spikes and big claws are 'something' but very mild if you have -----unlimited possibilities----- in your hands. Yes the trailers shouldn't have spoiled it's appearance as much as they did but in the end it wasn't particularly memorable looking anyway, so... ehh? Bland and blurry.

I don't even remember how it sounds like whereas all the other predators from previous films (except the lame one-joke JP3 ceratosaurus lol) had very distinctive vocals. Even freaking compies. And if it's supposed to be a hybrid of existing animals, make it sound more like it.

They could've easily made the chameleon blend-up abilities far more prominent part. I get goosebumps from the Carnotaurus scene in Crichton's TLW but nothing from the similar-ish scenes in JW. And other abilities, beyond the apparent uber-intelligence etc, they could've explored far more. If you have an artificial creature, go to the really deep end with it, instead sort of half way. Again most don't care as they just want to see the thing mashing into things and eating people, but then again they probably wouldn't mind more distinctive features either.

Lastly, as there are no animatronics anymore and barring single Apatosaurus "homage" scene it's all done with shiny plastic (faker looking than 1993 IMO) overload of CGI, there's no sense of wonder and awe. I've been watching bits and pieces of JP3 again lately as and improperly as Spino was lighted and edited out most of the times, the robotic giant looks god damn menacing and REAL especially in the river scene. I don't believe for a second Owen or the kids are running away from I-Rex but at least with Spino I can bend my imagination most of the time, especially in animatronic mode.

Of course the JW T-Rex CGI looked just as non-convincing as the I-Rex but in this age of computer overblown, what can you do. All the other areas they could've at least tried if they wanted whereas the lack of animatronics is just result of studio saying "do everything in CGI because it's easier to handle everything in post production" in the first board meeting.

Btw since we're on the topic of animatronics, I have to say that the old JP3 T-Rex animatronic body was pretty bad for that single brief scene it was in. Even as admirer of robotics and practical effects I have to admit that. IIRC it was one of the old models that had just stood in some warehouse for ages when they dragged it into the soundstage, and it really showed... the facial and eye movement in particular was horrendous when it roared. But I think I still take bad looking animatronic over bad CGI. At least you can call it campy.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:23 pm

Mistral wrote:
Alright let's put aside my issue of the I-Rex being artificial and constructed solely for plot/film's convenience in the first place. Whatever. But if you ARE going to do it and committed to creating this new beast, why not go wild?

They could have done literally anything to the I-Rex looks wise as it was completely made up. You know very imaginary body features that would've made Godzilla jealous. But it looked just like your generic theropod, only bigger. There are no particularly interesting shapes in it's body, no interesting colors, nothing that makes it stand up from the crowd. I guess the spikes and big claws are 'something' but very mild if you have -----unlimited possibilities----- in your hands. Yes the trailers shouldn't have spoiled it's appearance as much as they did but in the end it wasn't particularly memorable looking anyway, so... ehh? Bland and blurry.

I don't even remember how it sounds like whereas all the other predators from previous films (except the lame one-joke JP3 ceratosaurus lol) had very distinctive vocals. Even freaking compies. And if it's supposed to be a hybrid of existing animals, make it sound more like it.

They could've easily made the chameleon blend-up abilities far more prominent part. I get goosebumps from the Carnotaurus scene in Crichton's TLW but nothing from the similar-ish scenes in JW. And other abilities, beyond the apparent uber-intelligence etc, they could've explored far more. If you have an artificial creature, go to the really deep end with it, instead sort of half way. Again most don't care as they just want to see the thing mashing into things and eating people, but then again they probably wouldn't mind more distinctive features either.

I think going completely overboard with it would have taken some people out of the film. It is a Jurassic Park film, so it still has to be a dinosaur with a somewhat recognizable shape. I mean, at what point does it stop being a film/franchise about dinosaurs and start being about crazy, off the wall monsters that barely qualify as "dinosaurs"?

I'm glad they went with a happy medium approach. Simply having it be another large carnivore would have been redundant, but go too off the wall with it and it stops being a dinosaur and just becomes a monster.

Totally agree about the lack of distinctiveness in the roar though. Complete missed opportunity.

The quality of the CGI and lack of animatronics is another discussion entirely imo.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:49 pm

Sure it would have enhanced the perspective difference between 'fake dinosaur' and 'real dinosaur' more, but didn't they want to portray the thing as monster anyway? Lot of the themes the film tries to force feed through you, you know people always wanting for more and so on, would've worked better as concepts if there was crystal clear difference between trying too much and letting it go naturally. Now it's just in between.

Also, from fictional perspective, I just wonder, that as customer of that park that's "bored with normal dinosaurs" (like the people supposedly already are after 10 years... for some reason I don't buy), is I-Rex really gonna make a difference? Is your Average Joe really going to be more impressed with the outlook of that thing than he would of say Spinosaurus? It's not even that much larger. If he's bored with T-Rex already, how is I-Rex that just looks like a big (more or less) generic theropod gonna make him happier? Especially when/if he becomes aware it's not even a "real" dinosaur, but just some kind of commercial hybrid combination attempt made to look like one? Wouldn't he want Godzilla?

I don't understand the reaction of Masrani when he sees it for the first time (other than the color thing), if anything you would have thought him to request even bigger and distinctive beast from Dr Wu.

In the end I don't get how logic works in that park at any level, from how it came to be to how it's constructed and financed and operated, and how it's seemingly perceived by it's customers, and then the little details. Even Ludlow/InGen's San Diego park seemed like a well thought, well planned project in comparison. The only thing I do buy logical in JW is the amount of Starbucks in vicinity. Oh and Jimmy Fallon appearing in their branding. Of course he would be there.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:47 am

Mistral wrote:
Sure it would have enhanced the perspective difference between 'fake dinosaur' and 'real dinosaur' more, but didn't they want to portray the thing as monster anyway? Lot of the themes the film tries to force feed through you, you know people always wanting for more and so on, would've worked better as concepts if there was crystal clear difference between trying too much and letting it go naturally. Now it's just in between.

Also, from fictional perspective, I just wonder, that as customer of that park that's "bored with normal dinosaurs" (like the people supposedly already are after 10 years... for some reason I don't buy), is I-Rex really gonna make a difference? Is your Average Joe really going to be more impressed with the outlook of that thing than he would of say Spinosaurus? It's not even that much larger. If he's bored with T-Rex already, how is I-Rex that just looks like a big (more or less) generic theropod gonna make him happier? Especially when/if he becomes aware it's not even a "real" dinosaur, but just some kind of commercial hybrid combination attempt made to look like one? Wouldn't he want Godzilla?

I don't understand the reaction of Masrani when he sees it for the first time (other than the color thing), if anything you would have thought him to request even bigger and distinctive beast from Dr Wu.

In the end I don't get how logic works in that park at any level, from how it came to be to how it's constructed and financed and operated, and how it's seemingly perceived by it's customers, and then the little details. Even Ludlow/InGen's San Diego park seemed like a well thought, well planned project in comparison. The only thing I do buy logical in JW is the amount of Starbucks in vicinity. Oh and Jimmy Fallon appearing in their branding. Of course he would be there.

I get what you're saying, but what works in a fictional perspective may not necessarily work in a real world perspective. In universe, it probably would have made more sense to create some crazy looking monster-hybrid thing, but I feel that would have been far too jarring for the actual movie audience.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:45 am

Yes, I'm personally glad that the I. rex looks the way it does. The idea of making a fictitious GM hybrid dinosaur as the main theropod threat of the movie was treading thin ice to begin with, and if they had just made it a chimera monster like the dinos of the Chaos Effect toyline, I would not have been able to take it as seriously as I did in the actual film. The creature still needed to be beaten by the true dinosaurs at the end of the day. I like that it kind of looks like something that could have existed in the fossil record (minus the extra abilities) so that it doesn't seeem so unbelievable. I also find it ironic that despite the Masrani Board trying to concoct a fancy new attraction that would draw in crowds ended up looking no more impressive than your average large theropod. In other words, you can't beat Mother Nature.

Even looking at what was hinted in the Rick Jaffa/Amanda Silver script, the I. rex was originally called a 'Malasaurus', it would have been an actual dinosaur from the fossil record (albiet made up for the movies) and would have contained all of the attributes seen in the I. rex; camouflage, thermoregulation, infrared vision, heightened intelligence. In other words, without the added element of the creature containing genes from other creatures, the abilities presented in the Jaffa/Silver would have also strained credulity.

Also for a real life perspective; more people would take issue with the hybrid looking like a silly mish-mash of creatures than looking than another large theropod. And once shown in the trailer, the effect would have been similar to the Terminator: Genysis trailer spoiler regarding John Connor becoming a Terminator - people would have been turned off.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:20 am

When it comes to I. rex, I'm in the middle. One the one hand, I'm happy that it looks conventional since in many ways, it makes it more frightening. You wouldn't expect such a conventional looking animal or human to posses such remarkable powers, and that's what makes it so scary. That being said, on the other hand, I do wish that I. rex did have a better and more interesting design. The truth is, the more I look at it, the more that it looks like a Giganotosaurus on steroids. Or at the very least, more colors rather being bone white. Something like the Dino Hybrids toy, but without the horns at the back of its head.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:49 am

Honestly, the more unique the next T. Rex looks from its predecessors, the more time I want it to have in the movie. If we're just gonna get a size, silhouette, and skin pattern that conforms to the male-female thing established in the first two, it'll feel tired and kind of boring.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:02 pm

BoulderFaceplant wrote:
Honestly, the more unique the next T. Rex looks from its predecessors, the more time I want it to have in the movie. If we're just gonna get a size, silhouette, and skin pattern that conforms to the male-female thing established in the first two, it'll feel tired and kind of boring.

I don't disagree that we need something slightly different, but I don't want anything too radical. Different new colors that still conforms to identifying males and females and giving the T. rexes lips are what I'd do.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:04 pm

There are ways to identify female and male in TLW?

I've watched that film periodically for about 19 years and wasn't aware of that. Maybe I just didn't care enough to try spot differences.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:19 pm

You might find these useful!

Based on what we can tell, the males have shorter, stockier skulls than the females, a distinctive throat wattle and more pronounced eyebrows. When seen in daylight, the Buck has a dark green colouration and the Doe has brown scales just like Rexy, also the Buck has a scar on his face that is visible in the film:



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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:19 pm

Mistral wrote:
There are ways to identify female and male in TLW?

I've watched that film periodically for about 19 years and wasn't aware of that. Maybe I just didn't care enough to try spot differences.


BarrytheOnyx wrote:
You might find these useful!

Based on what we can tell, the males have shorter, stockier skulls than the females, a distinctive throat wattle and more pronounced eyebrows. When seen in daylight, the Buck has a dark green colouration and the Doe has brown scales just like Rexy, also the Buck has a scar on his face that is visible in the film:




Females have least 2 shades of brown and are slightly larger. Full grown males are either green or green/blue with black stripes and a white belly.

Here are the sizes.

Males: 40-41 ft long    
Females: Normally 42 ft long, but Rexy is 44 ft long.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:38 pm

Thanks.

So which gender is the JP3 Rex?

And is there a way to determine if it's one of the TLW adults, or offspring(s)?
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:43 pm

Mistral wrote:
Thanks.

So which gender is the JP3 Rex?

And is there a way to determine if it's one of the TLW adults, or offspring(s)?

It was an adult T. rex that was 90% grown. I think it was 36-37 ft long. It wasn't one of the members of the T. rex family in TLW, but it's own Rex.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:45 pm

And the gender?
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:52 pm

Mistral wrote:
And the gender?

Male. You could tell it was just by the colors.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:54 pm

I always found the best way to identify which Rex was which in TLW to listen to the sounds they make. With the lighting the way it is, it's hard to make out the individual colors of the Rexes, but the female was the one that made the classic JP sounds/roars, while the male introduced the new Rex sounds we heard in TLW....I think.
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:06 pm

Alright cheers all. I'll look into it the next time watch bits of the sequels
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PostSubject: Re: How Much T. rex Do You Want in JP5?    Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:49 am

Rhedosaurus wrote:
BoulderFaceplant wrote:
Honestly, the more unique the next T. Rex looks from its predecessors, the more time I want it to have in the movie. If we're just gonna get a size, silhouette, and skin pattern that conforms to the male-female thing established in the first two, it'll feel tired and kind of boring.

I don't disagree that we need something slightly different, but I don't want anything too radical. Different new colors that still conforms to identifying males and females and giving the T. rexes lips are what I'd do.

Actually I wouldn't put lips on them. Check out this argument to the contrary: http://palaeozoologist.deviantart.com/journal/Theropod-lips-I-don-t-think-so-288659080

Gorgosaurus, for example, couldn't have had lips due to the sheer length that its upper teeth went down along its lower jaw. Lip flesh would've been pierced.
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