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 Name 3 good things in JP3.

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PostSubject: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:28 pm

The name says it all and please, don't add that notorious fight scene. I don't want this to be a flame war thread.

With that said, here are my 3.

1. The new Velociraptors: While I don't like how they were more...'civilized' for the lack of a better word, I actaully do like their designs and it's far easier to see the sexual dimorphism between the males which had the proto-feathered/quilled mohawk and the female which had the basic raptor design but with a nice white/cream and black color. That and unlike the other raptors, you can't blame them for being mad at the humans.

2. The Pterandons: These things weren't the most accurate, but they more then made up for it in the terror factor. These things acted like something from the old dinosaur movies of the past. It was a great breath of fresh old school air.

3. The Spinynator attacking the boat: This was the one good scene that I liked. This scene really made it fell like a legitimate new threat and given how we know that it was semi-aquatic, it still holds up quite well. I still think that the Spinynator concept was, at best, poorly handled, but I can't say that for this scene.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:03 am

1. Some great Grant's one-liners.
"We're not yet landed", "Nobody move a muscle", "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions", "What if they catch us without them?", "We're in the worst place in the world and we're not even being paid", "This is how you play God", "No force on earth or heaven could get me on that island", "you probably won't get off this island alive", "On this island there is no such thing as safe", "I don't think so, it sounds bigger", "That's a very bad idea!", "Reverse Darwinism - survival of the most idiotic".
I mean, c'mon, these lines may be cheesy but also awesome XD

2. The VFX.
C'mon, you can say JP3 is not the best film, but the CGI in there is great. The only complaint I have is more about the Spino animatronic, which is so cool but it moves a bit robotic in some shots.

3. The cinematography.
I think they nailed the atmosphere and the look of the movie. It's a pity, because it was wasted for a film that had a poor story.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:15 am

1. The Spinosaurus
2. The new look Raptors
3. The Pteranodon attack

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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:01 pm

1- Spinosaurus.
2- The new raptors.
3 - The rest of the dinosaurs + Pteranodon.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:44 pm

-The on-location film making. Say what you will about the sets, but for all the stuff I tear JP/// up about I have to admit that the footage shot on location in Kauai is actually really good. Not as good as JP or TLW, but still not bad stuff.


-The Aviary scene. This scene is definitely one of the top scenes in the movies. It's creepy, intense, well shot, and incredibly atmospheric, which leads into my next point.


-The atmosphere. I know I rag on JP/// a lot, but every now and then I get the feeling I might just be slightly too hard on the movie. Personally, I feel like while the sets can be lacking at times, there's some gems hidden in the rough. It's got some good, legitimate spookiness about it. I used to idolize the film's classic jungle feel as a child, along side JP's, because the more deciduous foliage makes for some real imaginative play in your local forest preserve with your friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:04 pm

-The Aviary/Pteranodons.
-Introduction of the Spinosaurus and Sornaensis Velociraptors.
-Setting up Jurassic World with the escaped Pterosaurs flying to Canada/Costa Rican mainland.

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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:18 pm

1. The aviary, in general. It's not only arguably the best scene in the movie, but one of the best scenes in the series.

2. Seeing all the ruined remains of Site B. The Workers' Village was cool to see, and JP/// brought us even more with the aviary with its catwalks and cages, the Embryonics Administration and Laboratories Complex, even the ruined tanker truck Eric lives in. You can tell the purpose in every detail of the EALC in particular--nothing's in there accidentally or arbitrarily. It doesn't take much speculation to envision how the place would have looked in its heyday, and that's really intriguing to me.

3. Grant's character. This film didn't have a surplus of memorable roles, but Alan Grant makes it worth watching the cast bumble about Isla Sorna. The impact of Jurassic Park on paleontology would realistically be huge, but we don't see much of it in the series. Grant gives us a look into what life has become for a paleontologist in the post-InGen age. His character development from the first film has stuck, and he continues to grow as a character throughout this film. Sam Neill gives an excellent performance again as well, demonstrating his understanding of the character.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:35 pm

The more I think about this thread, the more and more I'm disappointed with JP3. This could have been a good, or at least respectable, movie if Horner wasn't so overbearing (Spinynator, his Anti-T. rex bias, the raptor redesign which actually turned out good, etc) an actual script being made instead of being on the fly, a more competent director, and if Steven Spielberg was more hands on.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:52 pm

The End Credits
The End Credits
The End Credits.

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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:00 pm

@Sickle_Claw wrote:
The End Credits
The End Credits
The End Credits.

I can't blame you for feeling that way since I felt like that after walking out of the movie theater. It was some distance from where I usually see movies so I should have regarded it as a bad omen then and there.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:26 pm

- The runway sequence was thrilling, as well as the Spino encounter right after and up until...that scene.
- The aviary.
- Exploring more of the island, even if it led to some inconsistencies with TLW.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:01 pm



Scene about astronauts and paleontology. Thought that was a great scene that captured a lot of what the film was about. Why do people risk life to experience something. Grant looks on his past a bit, what he used to think and what he has learned.



Abandoned bit, always love seeing places and imagine how it was before.



Alan Grant teaching.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:40 pm

-The raptor design + effects.
-The aviary scene, still holds up to this day as a great sequence.
-The boat attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:17 pm

- The Aviary
- Like many others have said, the JP III Raptor designs
- The return of Dr. Grant
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:22 pm

1) The Aviary scene

It's everyone's favourite scene in JP3, including myself. I love the dark, foggy atmosphere and the ominous build up to the reveal of the first Pteranodon. I love the tension, intense score and dynamic flow of the scene and the Pteranodons (inaccurate though they may be). And I love that it takes a great scene from the first book and repurposes it in a great way.

2) Half of the Spinosaurus River attack

Not only is this scene very well directed with excellent rain for added atmosphere and the actors really sell the fear and urgency of almost drowning and being eaten, this scene was a demonstration of what animatronics can do when pushed to the limits, submerged in water and pummelled with rain despite the possibility of shorting out or catching fire. Its the one scene with the Spinosaur that I actually enjoy and consider above the standard the film sets for itself.

The reason I put it down as "half" is because of the fact that a lot of the tension is sapped away by the film idiotically cutting to the Barney scenes and the fact that the Spinosaurus just runs away after a little burn and ultimately isn't defeated or gotten rid of in a very satisfying way. At least for me, anyway.

3) The jungle settings and atmosphere

This is something the film actually trumps Jurassic World in on a production level. The location shoots in Kauai have a lot more lighting, mist and colour going into them than most of the jungle shots in JW. While some might be divided on the quality of the Universal Studios jungle sets, I actually quite like them and believe they blend together with the location shoots well.



Honourable mentions include: the InGen Genetics Lab, made me wish we got to see more of it and had some good worldbuilding to go with it. And Sam Neill's performance; while I don't like how his character is written in this film, Sam doesn't phone it in and still retains the easygoing charm and occasionally stern nature of Grant.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:07 am

1) The giant animatronic Spinosaur (when lighted and shown properly)
2) The auditorium scene when everyone was raising hands
3) It wasn't as bad as JW turned out to be
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:36 am

@Mistral wrote:
1) The giant animatronic Spinosaur (when lighted and shown properly)
2) The auditorium scene when everyone was raising hands
3) It wasn't as bad as JW turned out to be
May I curiously ask why you didn't like JW?  Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:10 am

@Spinosaur4.4 wrote:
@Mistral wrote:
1) The giant animatronic Spinosaur (when lighted and shown properly)
2) The auditorium scene when everyone was raising hands
3) It wasn't as bad as JW turned out to be
May I curiously ask why you didn't like JW?  Smile

Certainly Smile

Soft reboot ideology
Rehash/recycled themes
Obvious fanservice references
Another park, another Nublar
"People got bored of dinosaurs" 10 years later?????
TLW/JP3 canon ignorance
Indominus whatever
Trained raptors
Characterization of "Blue"
Weird Vincent D'Onofrio subplot
Dr Wu motives made no sense
Annoying kids, even worse than Eric Kirby
Clunky dialogue at places
WAY TOO OVERUSED CGI that didn't even look great, plastic dinosaurs
Lack of animatronics (one isn't enough)
Embarrassing "wink wink" end fight that made my head hurt
Bland score

Some of the characters were okay and there were alright bits here and there (especially the 70's style chat between CP/BDH at the 'shack') but not enough to warrant it even above JP3. At least JP3 didn't feel like billion dollar ADHD fan film but just generic mediocre sequel. I take crappy jokes of Kirby Adventure & slasher-Spino over rehashed park & fake-looking uber-brain Indominus any day.

But that's just my opinion. I only saw it once in a theater and thought "ehhhh whatever", then halfway through in Bluray until I had to stop it out of anger.

Mainly it's the extreme in-your-face reboot feel and awful CGI over exploitation that ruins it for me, the rest are details.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:22 am

It's not a reboot.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:24 am

@BarrytheOnyx wrote:
It's not a reboot.

Soft reboot.

And yes it is. Soft reboot concept just camouflages it as sequel even though it's attempting remake through rebooting. Yes it's technically a sequel, *evidence here*, but also a reboot. Just like Force Awakens.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:58 am

@Mistral wrote:
@Spinosaur4.4 wrote:
@Mistral wrote:
1) The giant animatronic Spinosaur (when lighted and shown properly)
2) The auditorium scene when everyone was raising hands
3) It wasn't as bad as JW turned out to be
May I curiously ask why you didn't like JW?  Smile

Certainly Smile

Soft reboot ideology
Rehash/recycled themes
Obvious fanservice references
Another park, another Nublar
"People got bored of dinosaurs" 10 years later?????
TLW/JP3 canon ignorance
Indominus whatever
Trained raptors
Characterization of "Blue"
Weird Vincent D'Onofrio subplot
Dr Wu motives made no sense
Annoying kids, even worse than Eric Kirby
Clunky dialogue at places
WAY TOO OVERUSED CGI that didn't even look great, plastic dinosaurs
Lack of animatronics (one isn't enough)
Embarrassing "wink wink" end fight that made my head hurt
Bland score

Some of the characters were okay and there were alright bits here and there (especially the 70's style chat between CP/BDH at the 'shack') but not enough to warrant it even above JP3. At least JP3 didn't feel like billion dollar ADHD fan film but just generic mediocre sequel. I take crappy jokes of Kirby Adventure & slasher-Spino over rehashed park & fake-looking uber-brain Indominus any day.

But that's just my opinion. I only saw it once in a theater and thought "ehhhh whatever", then halfway through in Bluray until I had to stop it out of anger.

Mainly it's the extreme in-your-face reboot feel and awful CGI over exploitation that ruins it for me, the rest are details.

I agree with the following:

Obvious fanservice references
Trained raptors
Characterization of "Blue"
Weird Vincent D'Onofrio subplot
Dr Wu motives made no sense
Annoying kids, even worse than Eric Kirby
Clunky dialogue at places

After the hype ended and I could watch JW more, I could note a lot of flaws too. Some stuff that could be greater than it was on the movie. Also the lack of depth on some characters annoyed me. But I still rate JW in a score that I still like the movie.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:18 pm

In a way JP3 and JW are very alike. They are both incredibly "play safe" movies, aimed not to take any risks whatsoever and bring the money home. JP3 is basically like a higher end direct-to-dvd sequel with very predictable generic monster movie story line and characters, while JW is relying almost entirely on nostalgia by copypasting the first film as well as stuffing the screen with as many shiny objects as possible. Now, you can argue which of these succeeded better in "safeness" with their ways of approach (majority seemingly leaning on JW), however at the end of the day it's plain clear that both films did not want to introduce anything new (I mean really new), make major offences, or stray away from the core premise.

TLW isn't exactly Empire Strikes Back or Aliens either, but at least it wasn't Ghostbusters 2 or Halloween 2 or Jaws 2 or whatever where it's the same exact movie as the first one but just worse. There's is "sort of" a variance going on with weird mix between King Kong, original JP and the TLW novel. Atmosphere is also darker. Even though most of the audiences despise the film and find it boring, and I don't think it's particularly that great either, at least it wasn't playing 100% safe like the other two sequels. In my books at least. It sort of tried. Of course Spielberg may have Crichton partly to "thank" for it, even though in the end didn't use almost any of the material he had pressured poor Michael to write.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:34 pm

1) The river scene

2) I actually dug the design of the raptors.

3) The fact that it was so mind numbingly terrible that Universal decided to put the franchise on the back burner for a while, thus refreshing the franchise and eventually leading to a strong sequel that's goals didn't exceed its reach (glares at TLW), or wasn't just plain terrible (glares at JP3).
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:40 pm

I don't think it was the quality or non-quality of JP3 that mattered to Universal, but:
1) JP3 did mediocre at box office
2) All the new scripts and ideas they came up with for JP4 were terrible
3) Rebooting old franchises and making **** ton of money with it has grown steadily in the last few years
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:45 pm

I only get three? :/

1) The score.

2) The creepy dinosaurs.

3) "Billy. . . .tell me we didn't land."
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:03 pm

While in my personal opinion the Sorna films were the weaker half of the franchise, with the JP/// being the weakest of the two, it at least had a few moments that saved it from being a completely disappointing watch.

1. Velociraptor, design, animatronics and suits - This is the one aspect of the film that I believe does better than JW, the closeup shots of the Velociraptors. While the CGI for the animals was pretty decent in the latest film, I find JP///'s practical effects for the Raptors, just as good if not better than they appeared in JP. The design is very creative and surprisingly natural, I really like how they showed the differences between the males and females, with the different colours and even adding feather quills on top of the male's heads. They also have a quite a lot of expression whether they're being cunning, angry or surprised.

2. Spinosaurus Boat Attack - This scene had the potential to not work. In all the scenes prior to this one, the Spinosaurus had the worst special effects in the whole franchise; when it was a CGI effect, it didn't as though it was there and when it was an animatronic, it was clunky, jerky and lifless, it looked as though it was being handled by people who didn't know what the controls were.

Prior to this scene, there was no truly terrifying scene that made the Spinosaurus stand out from the Rex Attack, and the Raptors in the Kitchen. The Boat Attack is one of two truly terrifying scenes in JP///, and this is the scene that somewhat redeemed the Spinosaurus. There was a wonderful seamless blend of CGI and animatronics; the awful CGI is now camouflaged by the night and the rain, similar to the first Rex attack, and with the brilliant controlling of the animatronic, especially where it drew blood with one of the Kirby's, this was the moment where the Spinosaurus felt alive and was truly on the screen. It's such a pity then that the Spinosaurus had so many bad scenes prior to this one.

3. Pteranodon Aviary Sequence - This is the other truly terrifying scene in JP///, and arguably one of the highlights of the whole franchise. Everything about this scene, from beginning to end, was done right; the special effects were great, the atmosphere was wonderfully foreboding and frightening and the chase was very exciting, especially with the creative use of the parachute to save Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:16 pm

Yeah the Spino river scene was good, however I remember being visibly annoyed/confused already in the theater when they kept cutting to Sattler's stupid kid answering the phone and especially when he was jumping up and down with Barnie on TV. It spoils the moment when you have comedick slapstick in bright daylight cut to supposedly scary huge animatronic dinosaur fishing for human flesh in thunderstorm.

The river scene in the first novel with Grant and kids is so much more effective, even though the T-Rex and dilos only briefly appear in it.

Anyway even with it's flaws I still think that JP3 scene was better than anything in JW.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:59 pm

@Mistral wrote:
Yeah the Spino river scene was good, however I remember being visibly annoyed/confused already in the theater when they kept cutting to Sattler's stupid kid answering the phone and especially when he was jumping up and down with Barnie on TV. It spoils the moment when you have comedick slapstick in bright daylight cut to supposedly scary huge animatronic dinosaur fishing for human flesh in thunderstorm.

I think the cuts to Barnie in that scene, was to give the "kiddie-friendly" view of dinosaurs contrast as to what "real dinosaurs" are actually like.

@Mistral wrote:
Anyway even with it's flaws I still think that JP3 scene was better than anything in JW.

I'm afraid, I highly disagree with you on that one Mistral.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:43 pm

Not surprised, I'm in the minority in ranking JW as the worst of the sequels. But opinions are just that, opinions.

Anyway, that Barnie scene, there are so many other inappropriate "comedy bits" in JP3 that in the end it's not even one of the worst. Most of the awful ones central around Kirby family. I would say the ones I actually do like are the auditorium hand raises which I mentioned earlier, and when Billy or whatever his name was asks John Diehl how he knows the Kirbys, and he answers "through our church" with serious face. It's such a weird out of place line I gotta like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:40 pm

I have to admit that I have more than three good things to point out from JP3, it is not the best of the franchise, however there are still things that do very well at the level of the first two, for me the three most relevant are:

1: The atmosphere

Something that Jurassic Park 3 did very well was that kind of "hybrid" atmosphere between the dark and majestic shown throughout the plot, I have even said, it was even better than the photograph and atmosphere of Jurassic World. In JP3 still felt the wild and the adventure of a film of Jurassic Park, adapting very well both the dinosaurs and the description of an abandoned island that keeps its secrets.

2: The CGI and the practical effects

Except for some stiffness bugs in the Spinosaurus animatronic and a little glitch in the CGI (especially on the FlyBy scene), I can say that I am satisfied with the detail and effort made by ILM and Stan Wiston's workshop with this third delivery. The models and details of the new raptors are incredible.

3: The Soundtrack

Obviously it does not compare to John Williams' work with JP and TLW, but I think Don Davis did an acceptable job with this, I think even comparable to Giacchino's level in JW.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:37 am

1. Spinosaurus
2. Aviary
3. Embryonics
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:50 pm

@Mistral wrote:
In a way JP3 and JW are very alike. They are both incredibly "play safe" movies, aimed not to take any risks whatsoever and bring the money home. JP3 is basically like a higher end direct-to-dvd sequel with very predictable generic monster movie story line and characters, while JW is relying almost entirely on nostalgia by copypasting the first film as well as stuffing the screen with as many shiny objects as possible. Now, you can argue which of these succeeded better in "safeness" with their ways of approach (majority seemingly leaning on JW), however at the end of the day it's plain clear that both films did not want to introduce anything new (I mean really new), make major offences, or stray away from the core premise.


What about how they replaced the T. rex with the Spinosaurus? That was hardly a "safe move". Say what you want about the Indominus Rex, but at least they didn't shove her down throats of the fans with the JP3 Spinosaurus.

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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:08 pm

@Rhedosaurus wrote:
@Mistral wrote:
In a way JP3 and JW are very alike. They are both incredibly "play safe" movies, aimed not to take any risks whatsoever and bring the money home. JP3 is basically like a higher end direct-to-dvd sequel with very predictable generic monster movie story line and characters, while JW is relying almost entirely on nostalgia by copypasting the first film as well as stuffing the screen with as many shiny objects as possible. Now, you can argue which of these succeeded better in "safeness" with their ways of approach (majority seemingly leaning on JW), however at the end of the day it's plain clear that both films did not want to introduce anything new (I mean really new), make major offences, or stray away from the core premise.


What about how they replaced the T. rex with the Spinosaurus? That was hardly a "safe move". Say what you want about the Indominus Rex, but at least they didn't shove her down throats of the fans with the JP3 Spinosaurus.


Yes it was safe. The studio wanted "bigger and meaner" monster in both of those cases. It's a common safe-playing sequel theme, "do the same thing but just bigger". TLW had two big T-Rexes in attempt of trying to top the first film. The only way to top that for JP3 would have been to have three big T-Rexes, which would've looked bit silly and convoluted. So they went with Spino, although the producers and writers hadn't done market research well enough to know that what most people actually wanted was more T-Rex, or at the very least not killing it off on screen by the new bully. In JW they again 'needed' bigger and meaner dinosaur to top it off, also acknowledging that most hated the Spino, so they went with something artificially bigger and meaner when they couldn't have larger real carnivore.

However, It was actually bolder of JP3 to kill the T-Rex, rather than of JW which did direct fanservice by recreating the original end scene of the first film, with the original T-Rex (+raptors) killing the bigger and meaner monster that had been transformed into villain. T-Rex destroying the Spino skeleton was icing on top of that agenda. That's artificially playing with audience emotions in both cases, but I take (slightly) less offense in Spino killing the T-Rex.

Taking risks is rarity nowadays, especially in big budget Hollywood. Risks alienate you, sadly.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:38 pm

It's one thing to take a risk, it's another thing entirely to execute it properly. In a parallel universe where the changes brought on by JP3 were well received, we probably might have accepted the Spinosaurus being the one to kill the T. rex if it had been executed better. Instead of taking place 30 minutes into the movie, and was depicted as a climactic battle, before which we had spent enough time with the Spinosaur to really get a feel of it as an animal rather than a souped up monster. Simply put, it was not a good fight because there was little build-up, the fight itself was rushed, and was predicated on the Spinosaurus (or rather Jack Horner) cheating in order to win, by withstanding the T. rex's bite and twisting it's neck in an implausible way. The fight in JW might have been born out of fanservice, but the Spino victory in JP3 was born out of shortsightedness.

Also, no Jurassic World did not recreate the ending of the first film, because by that logic it would have come down the to T. rex killing the Raptors that had gone rogue and no Indominus rex or Mosasaurus involved whatsoever. Yes the Rex was portrayed in a semi-heroic light, but it's not a one-to-one substitution as you imply. Disagree with me if you will, but the I. rex was implemented pretty much as the Spinosaurus should have been implemented; an anomalous creature seemingly created off-the-books, it's strengths and weaknesses discussed during the film, and it's ferocity tested and demonstrated enough times to want to see it defeated.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:11 pm

In our hearts we all know the real reason why the T-Rex was killed. They wanted to establish Spino as the new king of the jungle and supposedly bigger threat than anything we've seen before, as per the "sequel logic" I just talked about before. The way to do it, again as per this logic, is to show how the previous menace is apparently so much weaker in comparison, supposedly. It's all in producers head.

As to why it was done so early in the film, it was to strengthen the illusion of threat we were supposed to feel. If it was at the end it would not have served it's purpose, as flawed as that purpose may have been. Also as the film is a quick 90-minute popcorn run, what can you do in the end...

As a fight itself it was also very short, yes indeed, but that had probably more to do with smaller budget and time restrictions than anything artistic. Add in the studio interference and constant rewrites we know of. They didn't have opportunity for 10 minute CGI exploitation battle like in JW. 2001 to 2015 in this industry is like a lifetime.

Did it work? No, arguably not, it was doomed from the beginning.  Killing off something audiences love for the sake of making the new threat seemingly more menacing isn't gonna win anyone over, except in producer's estimations. And of course the execution was fairly poor too. But whether or not this thing was ever gonna work, it was a risk regardless, even if very cheap risk. One of the only that film took, and IMO bigger than anything in JW (except perhaps the tamed raptors) for what's it worth.

Disagree again on the JW ending. Just because it's not same frame-by-frame or happen in identical order doesn't make it any less intentional and safe. They knew what they were doing, it's the same basic finale as in the first film, only again "bigger" per the logic and with more stuff added into it. Considering that the whole film is basically Jurassic Park but just attempted in grander scale of rebooting, they knew most of the fans and general audience would like it. They know people want to see familiar themes, stuff they saw 20 years ago, they know this makes more money rather than doing something new. In any case, you have the new Grant (Owen) with new Sattler (Claire) protecting new Lex and Tim (new kids, whatever their names were) in familar formation and watching these monsters fight it out next to them. IMO the logic in Claire leading T-Rex to fight Indominus was illogical in the first place but whatever, that's besides the point. So you have the big fight going on, with the "Good T-Rex" once again saving them off from the evil villain, this time Indominus. The raptors are there to make the fight (of course) bigger as well as subconsciously trying to mirror the first film. Then it goes on for forever.

Safe is safe...

How did it go again?

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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:46 pm

@Mistral wrote:

Disagree again on the JW ending. Just because it's not same frame-by-frame or happen in identical order doesn't make it any less intentional and safe. They knew what they were doing, it's the same basic finale as in the first film, only again "bigger" per the logic and with more stuff added into it. Considering that the whole film is basically Jurassic Park but just attempted in grander scale of rebooting, they knew most of the fans and general audience would like it. They know people want to see familiar themes, stuff they saw 20 years ago, they know this makes more money rather than doing something new. In any case, you have the new Grant (Owen) with new Sattler (Claire) protecting new Lex and Tim (new kids, whatever their names were) in familar formation and watching these monsters fight it out next to them. IMO the logic in Claire leading T-Rex to fight Indominus was illogical in the first place but whatever, that's besides the point. So you have the big fight going on, with the "Good T-Rex" once again saving them off from the evil villain, this time Indominus. The raptors are there to make the fight (of course) bigger as well as subconsciously trying to mirror the first film. Then it goes on for forever.

Safe is safe...


While I'll agree that it was a "safe" route to go, is there really an issue with that? JW was a film that was ultimately tasked with having to win back the audience after the JP3 fiasco.

Sometimes a certain level of safety and fan service is necessary to keep the goodwill alive.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:10 pm

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
@Mistral wrote:

Disagree again on the JW ending. Just because it's not same frame-by-frame or happen in identical order doesn't make it any less intentional and safe. They knew what they were doing, it's the same basic finale as in the first film, only again "bigger" per the logic and with more stuff added into it. Considering that the whole film is basically Jurassic Park but just attempted in grander scale of rebooting, they knew most of the fans and general audience would like it. They know people want to see familiar themes, stuff they saw 20 years ago, they know this makes more money rather than doing something new. In any case, you have the new Grant (Owen) with new Sattler (Claire) protecting new Lex and Tim (new kids, whatever their names were) in familar formation and watching these monsters fight it out next to them. IMO the logic in Claire leading T-Rex to fight Indominus was illogical in the first place but whatever, that's besides the point. So you have the big fight going on, with the "Good T-Rex" once again saving them off from the evil villain, this time Indominus. The raptors are there to make the fight (of course) bigger as well as subconsciously trying to mirror the first film. Then it goes on for forever.

Safe is safe...


While I'll agree that it was a "safe" route to go, is there really an issue with that? JW was a film that was ultimately tasked with having to win back the audience after the JP3 fiasco.

Sometimes a certain level of safety and fan service is necessary to keep the goodwill alive.

Even if they had done just another generic mediocre sequel like JP3 in 2015 (which honestly I would still have preferred over reboot we got, but that's just me) it probably would have still got hell of a lot more money than JP3 and TLW. With right marketing maybe even close to what JW got. The market is ready 15 years later, enough time has passed with nothing between, the core audiences are at that nostalgic age for JP. It's like Star Wars. Solid box office quarantees future, that's all what matters to producers.

I don't know, I'm one of those people that rather have no further sequels at all if there's not even an attempt at anything outside the familiar formula we've seen thousand times already. There are many franchises that would have only benefited if they had stopped at some point early, rather than dragged into obscurity with sequels that only harmed the name of the original/originals in long run. I mean, none of the JP sequels is really bad-bad, no garbage like in Jaws 4 or Alien vs Predator or Die Hard 5 or whatever, but none are really that spectacular or acclaimed either. They just go the middle road playing safe, same old same old with tidy variations. It's hard to believe TLW actually has taken most risks so far... and even that to very mildest of degrees.

It's like what mr Plinkett said in his Crystall Skull review in regards to new Indy films, I kinda love these words: "We all love Indiana Jones, yes. But everybody needs that part of their brain that says: We better not. You know it's the part of the brain that turns on when you crave something that you know you can't or shouldn't have. And then you stop yourself."
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:00 am

@Mistral wrote:
In our hearts we all know the real reason why the T-Rex was killed. They wanted to establish Spino as the new king of the jungle and supposedly bigger threat than anything we've seen before, as per the "sequel logic" I just talked about before. The way to do it, again as per this logic, is to show how the previous menace is apparently so much weaker in comparison, supposedly. It's all in producers head.

As to why it was done so early in the film, it was to strengthen the illusion of threat we were supposed to feel. If it was at the end it would not have served it's purpose, as flawed as that purpose may have been. Also as the film is a quick 90-minute popcorn run, what can you do in the end...


Did it work? No, arguably not, it was doomed from the beginning.  Killing off something audiences love for the sake of making the new threat seemingly more menacing isn't gonna win anyone over, except in producer's estimations. And of course the execution was fairly poor too. But whether or not this thing was ever gonna work, it was a risk regardless, even if very cheap risk.

Actually, it was Jack Horner via his notorious anti-T.rex bias that was the real reason.

"I know for certain T. rex was 100% scavenger" via his 'Valley of the T. Rex' documentary and he himself said that reason why he wanted Spinosaurus to replace Rex was because "he was sick of it". To be fair, he was apathtic towards the raptor design saying "Your guess is as good as mine."

To this day, while he says that T. rex could have killed some prey, he still doesn't believe that it could have hunted and killed healthy prey despite all the evidence (partially healed bite wounds on hadrosaur and Triceratops bones) to the contrary.

If somebody else had been the dino advisor, then it might have worked. But with Horner being so overwhelming, he was basically the co-director. Also, even though Steven Spielberg was the executive producer, he didn't do much but let things take their course. He's like that with the Transformers movies too.

I still don't get why Horner still has a job with the Jurassic Park movies considering how discredited he has been for his multiple theories getting disproved.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:12 am

The others still had to approve his ideas. And I guess they were all like "I guess he knows what he's talking about" and "this is what we wanted anyway so let's go with it" and "he's been with us for so long in this franchise so who are we to oppose" and "whatever let's go with it we're on tight deadline here and I want to beat the afternoon traffic".

I don't think Spielberg has cared of Jurassic Park for 20 years, not past the first film. Even TLW seemed to have been like a contractual obligation and his interviews about aren't all particularly energetic. I'm sure he was just the yes-man in JP3 and JW, slapping his name to poster and giving some interviews to the media for marketing purposes.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:47 am

@Mistral wrote:
The others still had to approve his ideas. And I guess they were all like "I guess he knows what he's talking about" and "this is what we wanted anyway so let's go with it" and "he's been with us for so long in this franchise so who are we to oppose" and "whatever let's go with it we're on tight deadline here and I want to beat the afternoon traffic".

I don't think Spielberg has cared of Jurassic Park for 20 years, not past the first film. Even TLW seemed to have been like a contractual obligation and his interviews about aren't all particularly energetic. I'm sure he was just the yes-man in JP3 and JW, slapping his name to poster and giving some interviews to the media for marketing purposes.

To be fair, I remember reading that he was more hands on with JW then he was with JP3 by guiding Colin Trevorrow. He didn't do that with Joe Johnston. Though, that's because of how Johnston already made a few movies while Trevorrow only made one. I might be in the minority when I say this, but I really think that Spielberg should go. His seeming apathy was part of the reason why JW suffered the musical chairs of actors/actresses, scripts, directors, and setbacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:58 am

Spielberg's sure not the automatic quality magnet/assurance he used to be in his youth and middle age. Part of me wishes he had retired 15 years ago, at the turn of the century. Then his resume would have been almost entirely pure gold both in directing and producing side. Though obviously he hasn't lost his name completely like Lucas has...
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:43 pm

@Mistral wrote:
Spielberg's sure not the automatic quality magnet/assurance he used to be in his youth and middle age. Part of me wishes he had retired 15 years ago, at the turn of the century. Then his resume would have been almost entirely pure gold both in directing and producing side. Though obviously he hasn't lost his name completely like Lucas has...

I've been thinking about that for sometime now. I know that he can still make good movies via Lincoln, but it's hard to see if that was a flash of the old Spielberg or if Lincoln was the anomaly. The past 17 years, it feels like he's in an odd form semi-retirement. He doesn't want to totally go, but wants to lie back and get his name remembered. It's kind of like Tony Stark in AOU and Civil War.

Also, one more thing...

@Mistral wrote:
So they went with Spino, although the producers and writers hadn't done market research well enough to know that what most people actually wanted was more T-Rex, or at the very least not killing it off on screen by the new bully. In JW they again 'needed' bigger and meaner dinosaur to top it off, also acknowledging that most hated the Spino, so they went with something artificially bigger and meaner when they couldn't have larger real carnivore.

Picking a dinosaur that very few people have ever heard of before and having an appearance based on dubious remains was a big risk. Even more so considering how we now have a far better idea of what it looked like If they had picked Giganotosaurus, then it would have been a 'safer' choice since it had a surprisingly large amount of publicity in a short amount of time, and the holotype being 70% complete also helped.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:09 pm

They were probably always going to integrate the river scene into the movie (because it wasn't the only bit they borrowed from the first novel) and Spinosaurus makes more sense for that than some random other theropod.

Plus Spinosaurus is very easily recognizable and memorable from physical shape alone whereas dumb audiences might have seen Giganotosaurus or whatever as basically the same thing as before, but not as cool as T-Rex.

I don't really want to defend the Spino as in JP3 it was portrayed as some sort of bizarre horror movie stalker killer, however I don't understand why it's labeled as lame while Indominus or whatever it was called gets a free pass in turn for different kind of dumbness. Is it just the T-Rex killing? They're both unsatisfying answers to the same question of safeness IMO. Not that I really liked "we have two Rexes now and they want revenge, plus one of them is going to roam San Diego just like King Kong or Godzilla" story line either but that was the first sequel, there wasn't a strict formula pattern yet. Plus with the baby stuff the Rex was still acting sort of like animal would. It is sort of acceptable, sort of.

They really need to freshen it up for JP5, you know get rid of the bigger badder monster formula of the last three films, and instead try something new, but I don't have high hopes of it happenig.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:21 pm

@Mistral wrote:
They were probably always going to integrate the river scene into the movie (because it wasn't the only bit they borrowed from the first novel) and Spinosaurus makes more sense for that than some random other theropod.

Plus Spinosaurus is very easily recognizable and memorable from physical shape alone whereas dumb audiences might have seen Giganotosaurus or whatever as basically the same thing as before but not as cool as T-Rex.

I don't really want to defend the Spino as in the film it was portrayed as some sort of weird stalker killer, however I don't understand why it's labeled as lame while Indominus or whatever it was called gets a free pass in turn for different kind of dumbness.They're both unsatisfying answers to the same question of safeness IMO. Not that I really liked "we have two Rexes now and they want revenge, plus one of them is going to roam San Diego just like King Kong or Godzilla" story line either but that was the first sequel, there wasn't a strict formula pattern yet. Plus with the baby stuff the Rex was still acting sort of like animal would.

Well as I said before, JP3 basically shoved Spinosaurus down the throats of the audiences. Nobody like something new shoved down their throats, even more so if it's something they have never heard of before and without a reason. The more you do it, the more push back you get. That and we never got an origin story or what happened to it after it was cased off by fire. Given it's durability, it's safe to say that it didn't get any serious burns. We don't even know how many Spinosaurs there were/are? Was it the only one are are there more? The Masrani Backdoor thing heavily implies it was a one-off, but unless a movie gets made, people at large will never totally buy into that. At least with Indy we knew what we were getting to a certain degree and we got her origins. Was it perfect? No. But as I said, at least we knew what we were getting.

That and one would have thought that if Giganotosaurus was chosen that the creative team would have been able to make it stand out for T. rex somehow.
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PostSubject: Re: Name 3 good things in JP3.   Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:00 pm

It's a made-up dinosaur, of course they had to explain it in JW or otherwise it would have made even less sense in the context of a story. But that's the route they chose with artificial creature so they had to follow it.

IMO there was no great lore to be learn about Spino, other than perhaps finding a memo or something in the village and few throwaway lines in there quickly recapping how it's came to being or how it rampaged. Maybe some shots of it catching fish or something in the river too. But you know it's not like much info was given to the audiences of T-Rex either in the first film. Only that it can run fast and it apparently doesn't want to show up / hunt in daylight. Once it did show up we learned it had eyesight based on movement but the rest was done in visuals.

Of course, we spent long time establishing the T-Rex enclosure in the first film (which was great) whereas in JP3 Spino was just stuffed into the screen, immediately killing people and rampaging. But it's not like it took long off I-Rex to go that route too, despite film's longer length. Both it and Spino were shown way too early on screen, and in full, not taking time like JP (or Jaws) did in establish. Even in trailers they showed it too much.

Again, not every film needs to do things the same way, because every film doesn't need to rehash what was done earlier, but if you are committed to going that route again, at least attempt doing it right to best of your abilities. Neither JP3 or JW really succeeds in that, and to lesser extent TLW didn't either.

But that's just me. I acknowledge I'm in minority here in not ranking any of the sequels particularly high in execution.
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