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 Star Wars vs Star Trek

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If you had to pick one franchise...
Star Wars
62%
 62% [ 8 ]
Star Trek
38%
 38% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 13
 

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PostSubject: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:57 pm

There are two scifi franchises above others in popular culture. If you had to pick either Star Wars or Star Trek as the better franchise, which would you choose?

I first watched the original SW trilogy in 1998 as 8-year old, and it was just as big thing for me as JP was, maybe even bigger. In contrast, Star Trek was just some laughable nerd thingy I wouldn't touch with a stick. Not that I ever even watched a single episode or movie. However as the years progressed, it started to switch around. Star Wars started to feel so tired and commercialized. Don't get me wrong, I still love Empire Strikes Back and the original film, but all the others are either safe-mediocre or downright trash, and the 'expanded universe' and all the side products just bore me now. Then around 8 years ago I first got into TNG, then DS9, and my full Star Trek journey started from there... I suppose Star Wars appealed me more as kid, but now as adult Star Trek even in it's nerdy science world feels more , umm, mature? So for me it's ST.

edit: changed some wordings


Last edited by Mistral on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:54 pm

Easily, easily......easily Star Wars and it isn't even close. Aside from spawning a few of the greatest films in cinema, one of the greatest villains ever, creating an unique lexicon that well over a billion people can understand just from hearing it and inspiring some of today's tech and entertainers--aside from all that--it has become the single-most cinematically important and integral franchise (A New Hope being the most important of THAT) in film history. At least as far as cinema goes.

Not only is it the 2nd highest-grossing film franchise PER film in history (The Dark Knight Trilogy is 1st, JP is 4th), as well as one of the top 5 of all time, it is home to a Best Picture, Best Director and Script nominee unlike Trek. One of the three highest-grossing actors of all-time played a major part (Ford). Reinvigorated motion picture scoring which was starting to fall by the way side in spite of Godfather and Jaw's best efforts. Made science fiction a bankable genre and infused more public interest in it than any other prior film or franchise, including the almighty Trek. Responsible for the consensus "Most Memorable Score of all-time" for A New Hope via American Film Institute. Indiana Jones would not exist and JP in its current state would not.


Besides all the homages and references which are too long to list; there is the most important contribution Star Wars gave and that is Lucasfilm Ltd. Star Wars forced George Lucas to create the most important company in modern day motion pictures. Lucasfilm Ltd conglomerate comprises/d Industrial Light & Magic, Skywalker Sound, THX and Pixar. These four companies influenced the industry immeasurably post-1977.

Here are some of their respective credits whose films would be drastically different--if they existed at all--were it not for these companies:

ILM:

Jurassic Park
Terminator II: Judgment Day
Abyss
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Back to the Future
Forrest Gump
Titanic
Saving Private Ryan
Avengers
Spectre
Transformers
etc.

Honorable Mention:  Invented Photoshop
Employed David Fincher and Joe Johnston

Skywalker Sound:

Well...let's just say a LOT. From Jurassic Park to Armageddon to Lost in Translation and back. Saw a movie? Chances are good Skywalker Sound/Sprocket Systems did it.

THX:

Responsible for the astounding sound you hear in your movie theaters and home entertainment systems. Helped revolutionize audio and video into what it is today...Every great video game, music and film owes a debt of gratitude to THX.


Pixar:

Self-explanatory.



I am just scratching the surface on its importance and impact but I think you start to get the picture. Plus the critical consensus of the films is greater. Sure Trek has a few great but very dated series, but their content could have easily been replicated in a different series and genre. They were morally centered and morally strong but so are about a thousand other shows and its uniqueness is somewhat limited as a result. Yes I am aware Klingons, Data, Romulans, etc all exist uniquely in the franchise but what iconic set piece exists on any of those shows? How about a specific scene you could quote and everyone knows? The Trek movies are more known and they pale to Star Wars. TNG may be best known for its Picard memes. Star Wars delves into religion and mythology far deeper as well. It is a false argument to say Trek is really that more mature than Wars. It just chose to be dryer and less accessible to children. I would take Trek shows over Star Wars ones though. I like both but our culture today couldn't survive without Star Wars. It is too ingrained. A fundamental component of our current culture. I struggle to see the same reliance on Trek to shape our culture.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:06 pm

Maybe I worded the poll a bit poorly. If we start going to deep into that "what wouldn't exist without X or Y" rabbit hole, we go too far away from the core subject. Also Star Wars would not have necessarily existed as it did without some ST traits either, so even that is detrimental. Should've just had it as "which do you prefer". Sorry, my bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:23 pm

Well Star Wars was influenced by serials more than Star Trek. Something Trek fans took pride in. They were hardcore science-fiction and Star Wars was softcore, fantastical sci-fi...or science fantasy.

But fair enough.

Still, taking away the legacy of Star Wars, it still stands on its own with A New Hope alone for its accolades that no Trek film has achieved. And really that is the only way they can be compared. Otherwise you have the larger media library in Star Wars or the Star Trek live-action shows vs animated kids shows for Star Wars.

Films=Star Wars
Shows=Trek (and that would be the case even if the animated shows weren't pure bovine feces in my opinion)
Everything else= Star Wars mainly because Star Trek has basically nothing to its name elsewhere.

I think the thing that hampers Star Trek besides the decided idea to formulate their new movies closer to Star Wars in style is that TNG--their best media--is just too....safe and too unrealistic. The good guys are clearly good and never make mistakes. Their morality is too black and white (and always right). Their decision making is too predictable. They are the politically correct science fiction brand between the two and that puts me off despite its quality. They don't delve into mythology either, choosing other philosophical areas. Yes, ROTJ, TPM and AOTC have their flaws but at least moral ambiguity stays consistent in the others. Has its main character turn evil. Characters repeatedly mess up. In many ways Star Wars is actually the more realistic franchise. It does realism better than Trek. Socially anyway.

Star Wars. It does all the things Star Trek does and more. Well apart from grounding things in science as much as it can.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:43 pm

Star Trek films have never tried enough. Not when they started or not now when they've been turned to mainstream action popcorn media. Even the ones that have succeeded the best (IMO IV & VI) have been letdowns in comparison to the standards of the TV series. Not that I really think much of the Star Wars films beyond the first two either, but those two are amazing by themselves and classics in film history whereas Star Trek films feel more like generic scifi rumbles.

Anyway. As I've said the films are mere shadows of TV shows in ST. TNG and DS9 are where it is for me, they are what I consider as the true standards of the franchise. TOS is 'fine' for what it is and obviously the most iconic but hard for me to really get into because of the period. VOY+ENG are forgettable for trying to recycle same thing, but I still rather watch random episodes of Voyager or whatever than endure myself to anything beyond Empire/Hope in SW voluntarily, except maybe Jedi which is 'tolerable'.

All in all, I think there's much more into ST universe than in SW. I mean okay the only series that's  actually went away from the "ship exploring the universe" theme has been DS9, but nevertheless that showed it was possible to do successfully. Whereas in Star Wars, immediately when you start going away from the old Empire-Rebellion & Jedi stuff, the material starts drying off in my eyes. That's one of the reasons why they are bringing old themes and fanservice into these Disney films, after the failures of the prequels
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:03 pm

There is much more into ST--or the appearance of it--because there is some 500 episodes and 13 movies to look at while if you only take the SW films into consideration there are now 8. And most revolve around the same planets because of the type of films they are. And as films they don't get to visit random planets or guest star random species, they are only background characters.

Revenge of the Sith might be deeper as a film politically, mythologically, and morally than any single episode or season in any ST series. They even touch on ethics while they are at it. Picard is too perfect, too robotic to be taken seriously as a genuine human being with flaws. He eventually always does the right thing, says the right thing and the shows always end well for the heroes. Riker is too morally bland. His first name should be PC not William. Geordi and Worf are indeed good (well except Worf-Alexander episodes. They make me cringe like it is little Anakin). Deanna is annoying, the doctor actors are not very good and Data is compelling but he regurgitates the same stuff every episode (I cannot feel, I want to be human, something about his android capabilities).

Knights of the Old Republic games were entertaining. Well-written. And the clones vs droids was hardly touched upon in the prequels so it is hard to compare Galactic Civil War era vs the Clone Wars.

They are bringing old themes back and fanservice because it sells like hotcakes AND because they are the classics. Prequel opinion has softened to the point a vocal sect of fans want more of that and less OT and it is growing. Star Trek did plenty of fanserving with their reboot to draw in money. The Nimoy angle and Khan angle are proof. It doesn't have as much to do with lack of quality or interest in the other stuff, just they know what sells best.


All this said, you can get intrigue out of LOST, West Wing, Westworld, Sopranos, Battlestar Galactica (yeah, they are posers), Star Gate, any crime drama show, etc just as you can in Star Trek, just without the aliens and Enterprise (or DS9/Voyager). Where can you replicate the experience that is Empire or Hope? Or Revenge for that matter (which is scores better than Jedi IMO).
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:12 pm

I suspect if there had been 1000 or whatever episodes of Star Wars at this point, the universe would feel far more exhausted than it does in Star Trek. But that's just my intuition and not fact.

I'm a fan of scifi TV, much more than scifi films. Babylon 5, Farscape, Stargate, BSG, X-Files, Andromeda, Firefly, etc etc etc. So with me personally, as Star Trek fits that spectrum better than well, I'm more into that sort of universe. Star Trek also distincts itself from the others with it's hard-on science approach in many cases, even if it's 50-50 technobabble.

Both of these franchises have been milked to death by commercial exploit, that's sure, but SW has arguably done it to far bigger effect than ST. I think when it goes over the top too much, it starts wearing off.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:36 am

My ratings...

updated

Star Wars films
New Hope the Original 9/10
Film industry classic 10/10
Ewoks 7/10
He's a funnier character than we've ever had before 4/10
Sand it gets everywhere 2/10
Nooooooooooo 4/10
New Hope the Reboot-Rehash 5/10
New Hope the Prequel-Rehash 3/10

Star Trek Films
I The Motion Picture 6/10
II The Wrath of Khan 7/10
III The Search for Spock 6/10
IV The Voyage Home 9/10
V The Final Frontier 6/10
VI The Undiscovered Country 8/10
VII Generations 5/10
VIII First Contact 6/10
IX Insurrection 5/10
X Nemesis 5/10
XI Star Trek Reboot 6/10
XII Into Darkness 3/10
XIII Beyond 7/10

Star Trek TV Series
TOS 7/10
TNG 10/10
DS9 10/10
VOY 6/10
ENT 5/10


Last edited by Mistral on Thu May 25, 2017 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:41 pm

Star Trek.

More well thought out universe, and a greater sense of continuity throughout all of the series.

Not to mention a greater exploration of real world issues, and the ability to really make a person think. I admire any form of art that really gets me to put thought into what I'm seeing.

Star Wars just doesn't do that for me in any capacity.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:57 pm

In grand scheme of things, the only major thing that really doesn't make sense in Star Trek universe is how humans use no money anymore yet basically still have economy and jobs under control in Starfleet. Iit's never even explained properly but kinda just glossed over in one-liners that may or may not contradict each other. At least with Quark and rules of acquisition you know where he stands with finances Laughing

By the way, Q might be my favorite fictional character in any media. And I also have to thank John de Lancie for originally being the one who introduced me to other lovely characters tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:41 pm

I'll be honest, I don't think they are worth comparing. Like, not that one is bad and the other is good, I'll always be a Star wars fan first and foremost. But when you compare, one is a semi-realistic look at a Utopian Earth exploring space and interacting with species beyond us. Star Wars is about constant war among millions of alien races, with space wizards at the heart of the conflict.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Maybe, but at least the JJ reboot films are comparable as they've been turned from sci-fi into science fantasy just like SW. And there's seemingly constant war and doomsday weapon plot in them as well
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:04 am

I think Gul Dukat might very well be one of the best television villains ever conceived.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:30 am

He's my favorite ST villain by far*. Particularly because he's not portrayed as truly evil (well not until towards the very end anyway), he has very understandable motivations and backdrop.

(*if you don't count Q)
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:42 am

Mistral wrote:
He's my favorite ST villain by far*. Particularly because he's not portrayed as truly evil (well not until towards the very end anyway), he has very understandable motivations and backdrop.

(*if you don't count Q)

I've never considered Q a true villain, which is why it always kind of annoys me when people consider him a "villain". Sure, he may be somewhat misguided, but his intentions were never really "bad".
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:16 am

@Tyrant Lizard wrote:
Mistral wrote:
He's my favorite ST villain by far*. Particularly because he's not portrayed as truly evil (well not until towards the very end anyway), he has very understandable motivations and backdrop.

(*if you don't count Q)

I've never considered Q a true villain, which is why it always kind of annoys me when people consider him a "villain". Sure, he may be somewhat misguided, but his intentions were never really "bad".

If anything, he's sympathetic to the lower forms of life. Indeed he is arrogant and doesn't show his affections, but for basically a god who can do anything he wishes, he doesn't have a bad heart (or so to speak)

The Voyager episodes where Q guest starred weren't that great portrayals of his character, except the first one where they went to the Q realm (the trial episode), however I still rather watch those than normal VOY episodes with captain Bitchy and her boring crew. Neelix can make his soups elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Thu May 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Never been much of a Trekkie, so SW it is!
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Thu May 25, 2017 3:39 pm

Favorite characters anyone?

And least favorite?

Out of the top of my head, here's my top 10s, ST only:

Favorite
1) Q
2) Dukat
3) Worf
4) Picard
5) O'Brien (DS9 only)
6) Ro
7) Data
8] Kira
9) Barclay
10) Garak

Least Favorite
1) Reboot-Spock
2) Janeway
3) Neelix
4) Lwaxana Troi
5) Phlox
6) Wesley
7) Reboot-Uhura
8] Chakotay
9) Tom Paris
10) Reboot-Scotty
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Thu May 25, 2017 4:25 pm

Absolutely can't stand to even watch Trek. Although I'm not some HUGE SW fan either. But SW default wins for me because i atleast like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Thu May 25, 2017 4:30 pm

I didn't get into Trek before 2008-09 TBH. I remember laughing out loud when a friend told he had started watching TNG few years earlier, it sounded so nerdy. How it changes Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Thu May 25, 2017 4:43 pm

I tried watching the original series and I just couldn't get past how much it had aged. The Next Generation is pretty fun though, and Deep Space 9 is fantastic and probably the best thing in the Trek series. Gave up on Voyager in the second episode, and probably won't even bother with Enterprise. I am interested in the new series of Star Trek though. In terms of the Star Trek movies, I need a refresher on the OS movies, though all the NG movies sucked except for Contact, and I genuinely enjoy the Abrams reboot trilogy.

Meanwhile, with Star Wars, I've seen all the films and I obsess of the expanded canon because I grew up with it. I also rewatch the films, like, a lot. So although I in general do like Star Trek (it's a very different beast), I'm going to have to go with Star Wars.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars vs Star Trek   Thu May 25, 2017 5:09 pm

Of the original series, I only really love The City on the Edge of Forever and the Tribbles episodes. The rest fall between okay to terrible.

Fav Trek episodes overall:
1) TNG Qpid
2) DS9 In the Pale Moonlight
3) TNG All Good Things
4) DS9 The Way of the Warrior
5) DS9 Things Past
6) TNG Genesis
7) DS9 The Assignment
8] TNG The Offspring
9) DS9 Little Green Men
10) DS9 Let He Who is Without Sin
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