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 Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along

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LostWorld
Compsognathus
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PostSubject: Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along   Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:43 am

Welcome to the T.rex-multiples as a tolerant, cohesive pair thread - Revised


With the FCM: HD looming on the horizon, I thought that this would be a nice supplemental addition for any pack that uses skin multiples. Here is a step in the right direction for a potentially conclusive solution to T.rex-multiples coexisting with one another - as a pack. Perhaps with this information, someone experienced with fsm modding or other could take it to the next level. This edit eliminates territorial disputes amongst your select T.rex-multiples entirely without changing Tclass. It was also done in an attempt to establish a "pecking order" on Site B by emulating what was seen from the original Film trilogy.

I started this thing over by reinstalling the game and mods anew for verification purposes. Here are the mods/settings that were used:


JPItalia's Movie Universe (w/ FCM 2.0 Allo skin)
PMEP sans Raptor.fsm files - only using GEP2 Raptor-specific fsm's for the time being.
DJE - skies and grass files, nothing that affects this edit from a mechanics standpoint


IMPORTANT!!! This has been thoroughly tested and is compatible with PMEP only! All results have been based on edits that were made within individual [Units] files and the [Units/WIN] folder that comes with PMEP. During this time, I'd also tried making this compatible with GEP2 but it was too problematic. So, PMEP all the way as far as this edit goes. I haven't tested with the vanilla game files to make a determination on that.

What I did to achieve this was install PMEP-->Movie Universe in that order. I then copy/pasted all PMEP individual dino.ini settings over each multiples' .ini file that were added with Movie Universe to keep uniform and maintain stability. This of course would be the same instruction for any skin-multiples pack that doesn't affect PMEP settings. I also swapped out some .INX files because I used some different dino sound files.    


***Remember, always backup original game files***


Now to the workaround:

Before you get started (assuming all DNA, Site B,etc. is unlocked), go into [Data/Units] and find the Trex.ini files of your chosen flock.


See that FlockSize=2 (or more).
I'm certain that FlockCoh needs to be enabled to show the crown, so set it to 1.0 or more. I think the higher this is set, the more the follower will move like the leader.
I have FlockSep=30. They can wander around without being "stuck" to eachother.
FlockRad=500 at this time.
 

Perception Input values are also key:

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.6 (change from PMEP's 0.5)
PInput_Size=0.7
PInput_Offensive should not be above 1.0

To make this fully compatible, you'll also need to edit some values in all large carns' .ini's PerceptionInputs. Keep in mind, PMEP has made upgrades to all large carns by swapping .Nwt's. Allo uses Carcha.Nwt values. Acro and Carcha use Trex.Nwt values. And Trex uses Spino.Nwt values.

Acro

PInput_Organic=0.5
Pinput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.66

Allo

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.66

Carcha

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.67

Spino

PInput_Organic=0.5
PInput_Maxspeed=0.5
PInput_Size=0.69


Also, you can adjust POutputs to your liking if you choose. I'm nearly certain that raising Large_Carnivore_Threat will raise tendency to flee, while adjusting Large_Carnivore_Competitor adjusts tendency to challenge. Results could vary depending on duels won/experience. I can confirm that duels won are a factor.

Save the .ini's. Now, make sure that the select rexes are using Spino.Nwt. Next, load up the game-->setup a paddock with carn feeder(I think the first kill sets in packing?)-->release any two rex multiples (I'm using Movie Universe trex2 & trex3) and allow them to pack together once a crown has appeared. There may be a... skirmish, hehe. Save game and exit out. Go back into [Data/Units] and open up the corresponding Trex.Nwt files (that should be Spino.Nwt values) and scroll down to the line W152=5.451560 and change to 2.451560 (or alternatively 3.270382 as this is the maximum value before territorial disputes are triggered - yeah, I was that determined to know exactly where the dividing line was). Once that's been saved, startup the game and load your save.

And there, you should have the results. The crown will still be locked in. Your "male" and "female" should make a nice attraction for your park, or you can let them loose on Site B. They will feed together,etc. without ever fighting one another!

Remember, for best results the rexes should be packed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some extra tidbits
           
The Good:

I thought that changing the species name would change how the species perceive one another. After testing, changing the screen name will still allow ability to pack.

Death Duels are retained

Territorial activity icon is not disabled

The "follower" rex will satisfy all of its own needs

When packed together territorial behavior appears to be intensified and they will even duel with Spino together *I've seen a couple of funny glitches with this


The Bad:

If a rex happens to go down during gameplay and you want to keep a pair/pack, you'll have to go back out of the game and edit the .Nwt line W152 to original and do the process of hatching and "crowning" over.  
 

The ???:

Vehicle attacks have had mixed results. I've seen relentless pursuit by both and even indifference towards the safari jeep. Sometimes one will pursue, and the other will be indifferent. I haven't figured out exactly why. Vehicle pursuits always happen when they first come out of the hatchery. **Edit** Out of the hatchery jeep pursuits were normal, but then I lured the rexes to another large carn by driving the jeep. After they encountered/dueled another large carn, they were indifferent to the jeep.
 
Hatching T.rex-multiples AFTER editing the line in NWT will disable packing, and they will only show [Territory] icon when encountering another large carn. They will wander around more aimlessly and most likely away from eachother if loose on Sight B. (A solution for this issue has been added and can be found in Post #4 below).
   
I tried getting this working with the default Trex.NWT afterwards but was unable to match the same result - W167 changed to 1.559825 or lower (in default Trex.NWT) will deactivate initiating battles but the rexes still panicked. To remove panic, I edited lines W64-->W69 to match the corresponding Spino.NWT. This was fine until they got [Hunger] and would then run after eachother.



More observation:

The rexes will go about wherever on the island (together or separately), but will eventually always meet up and return to the area they were hatched from. That is cool.

In Operation Genesis mode - when Rampaging! -  they will attack anything that moves, including other large carns. The rexes will :::never::: attack eachother (packed or not), even working together against a single target.

The "follower" rex will sometimes have bouts of aimless running around only while in [Hunger] or [Stress] while the "leader" is in [Idle]. When the "leader" is satisfying its needs, then the follower will satisfy its hunger. This appears to be normal for any non-leader.


These are just my findings in my experience with the game on/off the past few years. I remember using T.rex-multiples for the first time and was annoyed that they always ceaslessly battled eachother. After reading through countless threads online related to the issue with no answer, I found myself digging one day in the NWT's (tedious, but worth it). It was time... it was just time.


Anyway, this has been my placeholder until something better comes along - inspired by all of the talented JP:OG modders out there. Apologies for lack of video or screencaps. Try it out for yourselves if you're curious. Enjoy!


Credit goes to PMEP for awesome behavior edits that enabled this modification to happen, and JPItalia's Movie Universe for re-creating some of the best skins that I've seen that very accurately reflect their film counterparts.

I'd thought about just packing everything together for a simple download, but I don't think that it's my place to be distributing others work. Sorry about all of the DIY.

***Backup your original game files***

 
***Update***

So, it appears that the vehicle encounter issue is not exclusive to the T.rex edits as I first thought. I tested and found random changes in behavior/interaction with every large carn (before and after edits). For example, I released a Carcha and it was indifferent to the jeep. I then hatched another, and it chased the jeep... ? Same thing for the rex pair. Maybe something can be edited in the jeep.ini. **Jeep.ini editing yielded no results

As for T.rex/Spino death-duel outcomes, this one has been random. Age, kill count, and other experience factors don't seem to matter here. I wonder what variable determines the winner... ?

I've made attempts at getting the crown to show without having to keep redoing the process of exiting/editing/reloading the game, but have come up empty so far. The only time I've seen it appear is when there's a conflict related to either [Territory] or a [Stress/Panic] combination. There may be a combination that exists.


Last edited by LostWorld on Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:37 pm; edited 14 times in total (Reason for editing : Update)
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PostSubject: Re: Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along   Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:55 pm

Finally got it! I would like to bump this because I've added an update to the topic. I hope that I covered any questions that anyone might have. And please, share your solutions to anything that may help to fine-tune any random errors that may be in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along   Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:07 pm

A revision to the first post has been done.

Also, I've wisened up and have done some reading, and found some info from way back regarding this:

Quote :
Vehicle attacks have had mixed results. I've seen relentless pursuit by both and even indifference towards the safari jeep. Sometimes one will pursue, and the other will be indifferent. I haven't figured out exactly why. Vehicle pursuits always happen when they first come out of the hatchery. **Edit** Out of the hatchery jeep pursuits were normal, but then I lured the rexes to another large carn by driving the jeep. After they encountered/dueled another large carn, they were indifferent to the jeep.

Quote :
So, it appears that the vehicle encounter issue is not exclusive to the T.rex edits as I first thought. I tested and found random changes in behavior/interaction with every large carn (before and after edits). For example, I released a Carcha and it was indifferent to the jeep. I then hatched another, and it chased the jeep... ? Same thing for the rex pair. Maybe something can be edited in the jeep.ini. **Jeep.ini editing yielded no results

Finally, thanks to This thread, it becomes more understandable. I feel somewhat validated, but don't have a solution to edit the changes that occur as the dino gains experience.

Edit: And This topic backs this up as well.

Also:  

Quote :
As for T.rex/Spino death-duel outcomes, this one has been random. Age, kill count, and other experience factors don't seem to matter here. I wonder what variable determines the winner... ?

So far, I've learned that the outcome of this is almost entirely dependent on Spino's health line. When I edit Spino's health to 550 or below, it will lose everytime. When I put the line to 600 or more, it will win almost every time - if not every time. I've changed Size, Aggression, and have even put T. rexes HP at 9,999. The end result was - regardless of these changes - if Spino's health is 600 or more it will more than likely come out the victor. T. rex Size 20 vs Spino Size 7.0? Doesn't matter. Two established 7-year old highly territorial seasoned rexes with 80 killcount each vs. fresh-out-the-hatchery Spino? Doesn't matter.That bothers me... hehe.

I've also learned that when editing values in [Units], a 0.1 or even a 0.000001 can change things drastically. The game mechanics are... touchy. That's why the exact values that are listed in the OP are key.
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PostSubject: Re: Trex-Multiples Just Want to Get Along   Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:56 pm

Hi, everyone. I took a break from JPOG for a few weeks. Just a small update concerning this:

Quote :
Hatching T.rex-multiples AFTER editing the line in NWT will disable packing, and they will only show [Territory] icon when encountering another large carn. They will wander around more aimlessly and most likely away from eachother if loose on Sight B.


While playing with some values recently, I stumbled upon an alternative method that fixes the [Territory] issue. If you've noticed - when T.rexes are packed - the follower is always bound by a governing influence to the leader - specifically [Hunger] and PredNeed. When the follower is trying to hunt or eat, its trajectory/coordination is thrown off by what the leader is doing. [Sleep] and [Thirst] are unaffected. So, if you'd rather give the T.rexes their independence (no crowning) but have them establish the same territory, change FlockRad to 0. It appears that FlockCoh and FlockSep can be set to anything since this is for not packing.

On Site B, find the spot where you'd like them to establish territory (after the Spino.nwt line w152 and FlockRad has been edited of course), hatch them, and let them each get a kill using the carn feeder. They won't pack, but they will begin to establish territory. When they have been away out on the field and have satisfied all of their needs, they will then begin to make their way back to their hatching grounds - no matter from how far away they've traveled.

I felt that when using PMEP's settings, the PredNeed values of all of the carns (large and small) were set too high, so I reduced them to half of what they were. This works better, IMO, so that they're not in almost constant drive to go out and kill something unnecessarily.

Before this, I messed around with some .fsm files that I suspected could disable the follower's [Hunger] mechanic and movements from being tied to the leader. Some .fsm files, such as [Muster], have some lines - SetAutoMovementBlend (true) - that I thought may fix the issue by changing it to (false), but I was unsuccessful.

To sum up using this alternate method, the territorial behaviors are working normally, but the pack behavior and "crowning" is disabled. The independent freedom is there though. This also eliminates doing the "crowning" workaround process. Best scenario, is to find a combination that allows for a better balance with packing and independence -- maybe one day.

I hope that the original packing method or this alternate method has helped.
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