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 Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two

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PostSubject: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:32 am

So, what things did each sequel do better and worse than both other sequels? As in, where was TLW better/worse than JP3 & JW, JP3 better/worse than TLW & JW, and JW better/worse than TLW & JP3? Mine:

TLW
Better: Plot, themes, atmosphere, innovation, comedy, action, scares, characters, villains, dinosaurs, CGI, animatronics, set/location design, music, sound design, cinematography, continuity/canon, level of grandness, length
Worse: Self-awareness, pacing at times

JP3
Better: Self-awareness, lack of fanservice, pacing
Worse: Themes, comedy, marketing, cinematography, level of grandness, length, females on screen

JW
Better: Marketing, females on screen
Worse: Plot, fanservice, atmosphere, innovation, action, scares, dinosaurs, characters, villains, CGI, animatronics, set/location design, music, sound design, continuity/canon


Last edited by Mistral on Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:18 am; edited 5 times in total
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BarrytheOnyx
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:43 am

All right, since you began this...

TLW
Better: Plot, themes, atmosphere, innovation/originality, action, comedy, villains, dinosaurs, music, CGI, animatronics, cinematography, continuity/canon, level of grandness, marketing
Worse: Self-awareness, protgonists

JP3
Better: Animatronics, atmosphere, pace, action
Worse: Themes, CGI, characters, comedy, dinosaurs, marketing, cinematography, finale, self-awareness, fanservice, mishandled originality,

JW
Better: Marketing, plot, characters, action, fan-service, dinosaurs, CGI, music *, continuity/canon, finale
Worse: Atmosphere, innovation/originality, villains, animatronics, dinosaurs, CGI, **

* Seriously, who actually thinks that the music for Jurassic World is actually bad in any way? (apart from the obvious, as I am quoting his formula)

** You didn't misread that, I literally placed dinosaurs and CGI in the "Better" and "Worse", because they're a mixed bag on the whole.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:51 am

BarrytheOnyx wrote:
* Seriously, who actually thinks that the music for Jurassic World is actually bad in any way? (apart from the obvious, as I am quoting his formula)

It's not "bad", just bland like most modern scores, which ranks it at the bottom (for me). Not that Don Davis score for JP3 is memorable either, and I always remember walking out of the theater thinking how much of a rehash of original Williams score it was, but at least it had couple of interesting tunes like the Mercenary theme and Raptor/hatchery room and some others.

Btw you have some dual bests and worst in your list across the board.

Anyway, I just want to add that while I think JP3 actually had the best animatronics tech per say, they were largely misused/directed/edited and hence I had to give it to TLW.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:55 pm

TLW

Better: Plot, scope, performances, score, CGI, cinematography, atmosphere, animatronics.
Worse: Consistency, character behavior, pace.

JP3

Better: Consistency, pace.
Worse: CGI, plot, characters, story, scope, narrative significance, balance between new and old, finale(?)

JW

Better: Action sequences, character likeability, originality, balance between new and old ideas, finale.
Worse: Atmosphere, franchise continuity, main character, .


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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:12 pm

I was considering putting the 'finale' there as well, but you know I really can't. There is "the worst" finale, and you can already guess which one which is my pick, but I don't think there is "the best" here. In TLW the whole San Diego act drags on and feels like a different movie, and not in good way as in Conan Doyle's Lost World, or King Kong. Meanwhile JP3 ending is bit of a mess with the Barney nonsense cut into the otherwise fine river scene, and then the raptor egg thing ends in very lacklustery way. Finally JW ending is giant headache diarrhea.


Last edited by Mistral on Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:15 pm

Mistral wrote:
I was considering putting the 'finale' there as well, but you know I really can't. There is "the worst" finale, and you can already guess which one which is my pick, but I don't think there is "the best" here. In TLW the whole San Diego act drags on and feels like a different movie, and not in good way as in Conan Doyle's Lost World, or King Kong. Meanwhile JP3 ending is bit of a mess with the Barney nonsense cut into the otherwise fine river scene, and then the raptor egg thing ends in very lacklustery way.

I completely forgot JP3 ended that way until you mentioned it just now xD I may have to change my list a bit.

While I'm not in love with the Rex in San Diego bit, at least it felt like a finale. The way JP3 wrapped up was just.....odd.

The river scene really should have been the finale imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:25 pm

For TLW I think it would've been a very interesting end if the credits started rolling immediately after Ian/Sarah/Nick saw the sedated T-Rex caged from the helicopter. It would've left you wondering what the hell was going to happen, and that the animal rights frenzy hadn't worked out no matter how much they (well primarily Nick) had tried. Of course had they done this, some extra material should've been added beforehand so that the film wouldn't be just 90mins or whatever like JP3, but in any case that would've felt more compact. I do appreciate the change of scenery in San Diego, but the feeling is just bit off there.

In the JP3 fan cut I'm making, I've deleted both the phone bits as well as the raptor eggs crap, so that the river scene really is the finale and without comedy. As it should have been.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:23 pm

BarrytheOnyx wrote:
* Seriously, who actually thinks that the music for Jurassic World is actually bad in any way? (apart from the obvious, as I am quoting his formula)

Jurassic World's music was probably the least profound of all the movies, in my opinion. When I watched JW for the first time the music basically felt like it didn't exist; the only time I actually remember the music being somewhat powerful was when Masrani was flying the helicopter and that track was very generic JP. It was hard to even distinguish it as it's own track and not just them using John Williams' original piece.  

At least in JP3 the music felt "present" and at times somewhat powerful. Don Davis had a few memorable tracks for me (the aviary scene, the river attack) while JW had none.

The only two movies with good conclusions were JP and JW. As much as I love the TLW San Diego scene, it did kind of bottle neck the next movie in such a way that it set it up for a poor plot. The San Diego scene and TLW ending would have been more appropriate for a complete conclusion to the JP movies; the final act. Of course, Spielberg probably felt he was done with JP at that point and wanted to pull out all the stops.

Aside from constricting the future sequels, the TLW ending is a good one. On the other hand, JP3's ending plays out like a "what the hell" moment. As Mistral said, the river scene would be intense if the Barney/Ellie's kid thing was omitted. It ruins any tension the scene had and breaks immersion. Then we get the egg return scene which seems like the filmmakers thrown it in there thinking, "Oh, so you think the movie's over, well it's not and look another raptor scene." Whatever redeemable qualities the river scene had as a final encounter are completely soiled by this final ending. And on a side note, Billy's survival also makes you question whether the group was in any danger on the island at all.

Quickly, I also would like to say that JP3's handling of the raptors has to be the worst of the franchise. If we are comparing raptor scenes, JP has the best, followed closely by TLW. Even though I was never a fan of the "trained raptors" subplot in JW, I do think that movie handled the raptors better than JP3 did which is saying something. JP3 over saturates the raptors, and while the previous movies built them up the entire movie prior to their arrival towards the end, JP3 just throws them in towards the beginning with almost no buildup.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:42 pm

Without the TLW SD ending, Spielberg wouldn't have had his complete nod to ACD's Lost World, nor to original King Kong, which he absolutely adores. And that is why I believe it's there, not because of closing things off or anything. Clearly he didn't like Crichton's solutions, but even more so he wanted that poetic tribute out there. Maybe he wasn't so keen in doing the sequel anyway as certain other parties have suggested (plus he's even referred TLW as his 'first sequel', even though he had done Indys before) but he saw the opportunity to remake King Kong, or so to speak, under the JP banner. That, and/or contractual obligations?

Raptor presence of any kind in JP3 should have started from the InGen compound and ended when Billy realizes Udesky's left-behind-corpse is a trap. Essentially, they would play about as important role as in TLW.

I hated everything about the raptors in JW. Even the I-Rex was better. At least with the hybrid thing you could give excuses to what it could or could not do.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:53 pm

Megaspino2 wrote:
BarrytheOnyx wrote:
* Seriously, who actually thinks that the music for Jurassic World is actually bad in any way? (apart from the obvious, as I am quoting his formula)

Jurassic World's music was probably the least profound of all the movies, in my opinion. When I watched JW for the first time the music basically felt like it didn't exist; the only time I actually remember the music being somewhat powerful was when Masrani was flying the helicopter and that track was very generic JP. It was hard to even distinguish it as it's own track and not just them using John Williams' original piece.  

At least in JP3 the music felt "present" and at times somewhat powerful. Don Davis had a few memorable tracks for me (the aviary scene, the river attack) while JW had none.

Again, disagree. I made sure to listen to that score when I saw the film for the first time.

I could plug excerpts from the soundtrack for you, but I advise to give it another listen. And just to be fair, I do listen to the Don Davis score from time to time as well, there are good themes like the Kirby family theme, the Mercenary theme and the ominous action tones for the Spinosaurus, and a good repurposing of the JP theme. But it doesn't move me or inspire me as much as the Giacchino score. I will confess to a degree of bias in that after the two John Williams scores, I do listen to the Giacchino score third most often, but that's because I felt there was quite a lot worth going back to.
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PostSubject: Re: Name aspects each sequel did better & worse than the other two   Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:58 pm

I have two new categories for my picks:

- Animal behaviour/logic/interaction
- Human character behaviour/logic/interaction

TLW has the best animal aspect, mainly because the other two can't even qualify with IMO their cartoon dinosaur logics, but I am actually going to give the character one to JP3. Yes, even though many of the characters were irritating, at least they were logical and their actions weren't as full of plot holes. Overall I still prefer the character portayals itself of TLW, but most of the decisions don't really make sense.

So in other words, think of this as (lack of) plothole picks, I guess.
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