General Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom News Thread V.1

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

The one conceivable logic I can see dinosaurs being used as weapons is in a guerriea warfare scenairo in either one of the following settings: Jungle, urban, and non-tropical forest. And even then, you'd have to use Velociraptors and cover them in body armor, and put on additional ceramic plates for additional protection against AP bullets.

In other words, it would be easier just to use regular soldiers/mercenaries. Even in such scenario of yours the added benefits would be way too low for all the nuisances of training, logistics, costs and visibility. And the dinosaurs would never be as intelligent as humans in battle.

Maybe in dictator's private army or madman scientist's hands they would be a cool way to rip apart your opponents or prisoners, but again that would be more of a "game" than actual productive way to go killing. And the dinosaurs could just eat them rather than use their guns.

You could have raptors be trained to shoot guns and rocket launchers via adding human DNA. But there is no way how the fanbase as an overwhelming majority would support that.

The only other idea I could think of to use them is to be disease carriers. Have a raptor loaded with ancient bacteria run through a town and let the enemy all die of the disease, then purify the town with napalm. But then again, you'd be better off just engineering the bacteria in a lab.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I'll freak out if I see a pic of Claire or another one from the cast with a character clothes on. I can't wait to see what Wu will look like too. Oh man, so hyped! 

Just a simple guess. But I think they will keep Wu in the dark as far as promotional material early on. I know he's been confirmed. But "IF" he's the big bad... they might not want to show too much of him.

This is starting off even more secretive than last time.

Troyal1 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Well what's the worst they could come up with, besides generic "Jurassic Park 5" or "Jurassic World 2"

Jurassic Worlds
Jurassic Island
Jurassic Hybrids
Jurassic Eruption
Jurassic Ethics
Jurassic Rights
Jurassic Preservation
Jurassic Migration
The Lost Park: Jurassic World
The Lost World: Jurassic World
Jurassic Park (lol)

It's either
Jurassic Wu
Or Jurassic Zara.

Book it

Zara is back! And she's half raptor this time! And yeah its super secretive. And idk, whatever anyone says... Wu is back in this one. And we know he took a shitload of research with him on that chopper. Even if war dinos won't be back, hybrids certainly will be.

@Troyal
Do you think Wu will be the main villain of JW2 in a plot twist? I highly doubt he'll be, I think max they'll do is make him a mad scientist delusional with his research. I want Wu to appear dark in the first scenes but latter see around himself what is happening.

@Sickle
Lmao at zaraptor. I'm sure Wu is making more hybrids. I also want to see promo stuff around Wu being missing.

Bryce replied to me on twitter when I asked whether Claire would be Claire Grady or Claire Dearing

https://twitter.com/BryceDHoward/status/835558550629937153


Well I say thats telling.

I really didn't think marriage was even going to factor into Claire's character arc I thought she and Owen would be too busy trying to stop all out chaos between corporations, civilians and dinosaurs from breaking out. That teasing shrug might just be adhering to their "Total Secrecy" policy and meant to leave fans speculating, but I'd be impressed if they were able to pull of a great married couple who also double as action/survivor heroes.

It would be nice to see a married couple as main characters in a JP movie. Though I must say that I can't help but wonder if this is to make up for how JP3 broke up Grant and Sattler. Is so, then this would be another admission that JP3 was a failure.

There was nothing wrong with the way Grant and Sattler were separated in JP3. Relationships don't always end up perfectly.

Mistral wrote:

There was nothing wrong with the way Grant and Sattler were separated in JP3. Relationships don't always end up perfectly.

That may be true for you, but not for everybody else. Like Spinosaurus was treated, it came in forced and sudden. Even more so with the 8 year gap between JP and JP3. If Malcolm or Hammond had mentioned something about it in TLW, then it would have been one thing since we would have been prepared. But to have be like that the way it did was just..cynical.

It felt like the screenwriters were deliberately messing with one of the most likable elements of the first film just for the sake of subverting expectations. Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series.

Maybe it was their way of ensuring Grant would be persuaded to go to Sorna, since he's not a family man, but either way it killed three birds with one stone: the only likable couple in the franchise, Grant's arc in the first film, and shunting Ellie off to the side while the vastly inferior Amanda Kirby took her place.

BarrytheOnyx wrote:

It felt like the screenwriters were deliberately messing with one of the most likable elements of the first film just for the sake of subverting expectations. Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series.

Maybe it was their way of ensuring Grant would be persuaded to go to Sorna, since he's not a family man, but either way it killed three birds with one stone: the only likable couple in the franchise, Grant's arc in the first film, and shunting Ellie off to the side while the vastly inferior Amanda Kirby took her place.

When will the JP franchise ever get competent producers that actually care about the movie series and not learn the wrong lessons from the mistakes of the other films? And let's not forget to have some that actually want to fix the mistakes properly, and not half-heartedly.

In other case, the worst part about trading Ellie for Amanda Kirby is that we never saw Kirby get eaten. I get that she was supposed to be annoying, but to do her job too well and not get whacked when it seemed like she would. If that had happened, then I really think the fans wouldn't mind as much.

Mistral wrote:

There was nothing wrong with the way Grant and Sattler were separated in JP3. Relationships don't always end up perfectly.

Sometimes what's realistic isn't what's best for a story.

Grant's character was arguably not well written in JP3 and things were left in the dark for the reasons of plot's convenience (just as with Malcolm in TLW) but I still don't see how him and Sattler not being together is massively detrimental. You people really think that these things are what drove people off from JP3? They are details, small aspects that may annoy some fans but the majority see problems elsewhere.

At the very least, it was something that could have happened between the films. Infinitely more likely than someone building a new park to the same exact island as before, especially after the San Diego disaster, and leaving old visitor center to rot in the jungle only for some kids to find later. And not for the flow of the plot, but purely "remember this" reference purposes. If that is not forced, then I don't see how two people not being together 8 or whatever years later is.

I also see the line of "Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series" being a silent middle finger towards me, but hey, it's not like I've argued against that misconception million times already so why repeat that all again.

Mistral wrote:

I also see the line of "Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series" being a silent middle finger towards me, but hey, it's not like I've argued against that misconception million times already so why repeat that all again.

I really don't think it was meant towards you, but towards the producers and directors that made JP3.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Mistral wrote:

I also see the line of "Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series" being a silent middle finger towards me, but hey, it's not like I've argued against that misconception million times already so why repeat that all again.

I really don't think it was meant towards you, but towards the producers and directors that made JP3.

Oh okay. But even in JP3s case I don't think they were trying something different for differences sake either. It was just a result of different things going on in the background. We know of the numerous rewrites and battles behind the scenes. And IIRC Laura Dern wasn't brought in until very, very late in the production.

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Mistral wrote:

I also see the line of "Again, different for different's sake is very rarely if ever the right way to take a film series" being a silent middle finger towards me, but hey, it's not like I've argued against that misconception million times already so why repeat that all again.

I really don't think it was meant towards you, but towards the producers and directors that made JP3.

Oh okay. But even in JP3s case I don't think they were trying something different for differences sake either. It was just a result of different things going on in the background. We know of the numerous rewrites and battles behind the scenes. And IIRC Laura Dern wasn't brought in until very, very late in the production.

That might be true, but considering the heavy-handed, some could even say clumsy, way how they did so on so many things, the Spinosaurus, the new raptors, etc, it sure feels like they were trying to be different for the sake of being different, so you can't blame people for thinking that was the case.

I've just picked up where I left off a few hours ago, and Mistral's post about what I said earlier about "different for different's sake".

First of all: No. It was never intended as a "silent middle finger" to you and your views on the franchise's creative choices. I would appreciate it if you didn't think of me as that kind of fan, because no matter what none of what is said here is worth coming to blows over no matter how much we might disagree.

Alright I might have over analyzed the situation, sorry for my part.

As for the JP3 thing again, the way I see is that generally speaking the main critisism for the film has been that it actually didn't try to be different enough, but rather ended up just being massively generic monster action film. The case by case details that anger fans, such as the things Rhedo points out, don't really matter as much in large scheme of things - after all there are even considerable demographics that actually prefer JP3 over TLW. Now, while soft rebooting of JW certainly did not take any more chances either, I mean personally I would argue even less so, audiences rather took that than another generic sequel a la JP3. It was closer to what most wanted, a la Jurassic Park and nostalgic setting again.

Mistral wrote:

Alright I might have over analyzed the situation, sorry for my part.

As for the JP3 thing again, the way I see is that generally speaking the main critisism for the film has been that it actually didn't try to be different enough, but rather ended up just being massively generic monster action film. The case by case details that anger fans, such as the things Rhedo points out, don't really matter as much in large scheme of things - after all there are even considerable demographics that actually prefer JP3 over TLW.

Those people are clearly in the minority. The fact that a large amount of people still want a T. rex vs Spinosaurus rematch with the T. rex winning alone dismantles that. Not only that but many people like TLW over JP3. Here's the results from Box Office Mojo.

TLW: $618,638,999

JP3: $368,780,809

The only reason why JP3 made that much was because of name recognition and because it was a mediocre movie that came out in a year (2001) of outright crappy ones. If you put it up against a year that didn't have a quality slump, it would have flopped. Not only that, but I've seen a lot of people talk about how good TLW is over JP3 and JW. With JP3, the mindset of it being a bad movie that didn't deserve to make as much as it did is still very much alive. Maybe marginally better, but only a paper thin edge.

Box office number comparisons are meaningless if not adjusted to inflation. Even JW falls far behind JP in actual grossing. However, since I'm not aware of chart that would show worldwide adjusted to inflation rates, only US domestic (where the gap between TLW & JP3 is actually smaller), we cannot directly compare TLW and JP3 in actual numbers.

We can of course still make rough comparisons between the two, and in those terms JP3 did little bit than third or so less than TLW. But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that? You could argue that people didn't want to be "betrayed" again (no matter what we may or may think of the sequels), especially fueled further when the premise of the film and once again mediocre reviews came out.

The rest of your post indicating that the film actually got more than it "deserved" I see it as your own opinion (which is fine)

Honestly I would say JP3 also did worse because of the perception of the franchise back then. A lot of people don't like TLW. The fanbase does, and the general public liked it more than 3. But i still think they consider TLW to be pretty mediocre. More people appreciate it in retrospect but If you back to when it was first released and look I was shocked by some of the reactions.

Atleast in my experience TLW was considered to be an okay or mediocre movie that in no way lived up to the original when it came out. So people probably weren't too high on the idea of 3. And then it came out and people disliked it.

I'm not trying to argue that more people prefer JP3 because that's not true, but I think people have some rose tinted glasses on when they think of how the general public actually felt and feels about TLW.  

And I'm not so sure about the Spino vs Rex fight. I think the Rex could have won and most people would have most of the same issues. I've personally never really seen anyone outside the fanbase clamor for that rematch. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

Edit "But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that?"

Yes @Mistral that was exactly what I was trying to say. I don't know how big. But I think it played some part in it.

Troyal1 wrote:

Honestly I would say JP3 also did worse because of the perception of the franchise back then. A lot of people don't like TLW. The fanbase does, and the general public liked it more than 3. But i still think they consider TLW to be pretty mediocre. More people appreciate it in retrospect but If you back to when it was first released and look I was shocked by some of the reactions.

Atleast in my experience TLW was considered to be an okay or mediocre movie that in no way lived up to the original when it came out. So people probably weren't too high on the idea of 3. And then it came out and people disliked it.

I'm not trying to argue that more people prefer JP3 because that's not true, but I think people have some rose tinted glasses on when they think of how the general public actually felt and feels about TLW.  

And I'm not so sure about the Spino vs Rex fight. I think the Rex could have won and most people would have most of the same issues. I've personally never really seen anyone outside the fanbase clamor for that rematch. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

Edit "But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that?"

Yes @Mistral that was exactly what I was trying to say. I don't know how big. But I think it played some part in it.

Precisely!

And indeed we must remember that we are talking about the general public here, not the fans.

Anyway all this discussion would've suited my other thread pretty nicely
https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t937-general-audiences-reaction-to-the-sequels

I really wish we could get some JW2 news up in here. Atleast throw us a title.

Sigh

Mistral wrote:

Box office number comparisons are meaningless if not adjusted to inflation. Even JW falls far behind JP in actual grossing. However, since I'm not aware of chart that would show worldwide adjusted to inflation rates, only US domestic (where the gap between TLW & JP3 is actually smaller), we cannot directly compare TLW and JP3 in actual numbers.

We can of course still make rough comparisons between the two, and in those terms JP3 did little bit than third or so less than TLW. But don't you think that the generally lukewarm public reaction to TLW played a big part in that? You could argue that people didn't want to be "betrayed" again (no matter what we may or may think of the sequels), especially fueled further when the premise of the film and once again mediocre reviews came out.

Troyal1 wrote:

Honestly I would say JP3 also did worse because of the perception of the franchise back then. A lot of people don't like TLW. The fanbase does, and the general public liked it more than 3. But i still think they consider TLW to be pretty mediocre. More people appreciate it in retrospect but If you back to when it was first released and look I was shocked by some of the reactions.

At least in my experience TLW was considered to be an okay or mediocre movie that in no way lived up to the original when it came out. So people probably weren't too high on the idea of 3. And then it came out and people disliked it.

I'm not trying to argue that more people prefer JP3 because that's not true, but I think people have some rose tinted glasses on when they think of how the general public actually felt and feels about TLW.

And I'm not so sure about the Spino vs Rex fight. I think the Rex could have won and most people would have most of the same issues. I've personally never really seen anyone outside the fanbase clamor for that rematch. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

I don't disagree that the GA was a mixed bag, but one would have thought that the mostly positive reaction from the fans would have factored in to all that. To just blow them off via JP3 was a really boneheaded mistake that the producers made. If the higher ups didn't want to betray the GA, then they did so in the dumbest way possible by throwing the fans under the bus. That rarely works. And even if it does, then they always have to make it up in a faithful way down the line. Look at how Fox got back the fans of the X-Men movie series via bringing back Byran Singer and making Days Of Future Past, which ret-conned X3 out of existence and with the recent Deadpool movie, which ret-conned much, though not all, of Wolverine: Origins out of existence as well.

I still see more people having a positive mindset of TLW.

Yea it was a really dumb mistake, and I agree with you that more people definitely prefer TLW. But I'm still not so sure about how much more the GA likes it over 3(in terms of how they would rate it). I wish we could do a massive poll asking people in retrospect of how they view TLW. I'm pretty confident  it would be more positive than it was on release.

They rushed JP3. It's true. But I loved that film. And I know it's something we are never going to agree on.

But I wonder If people in retrospect would look at 3 in a better light down the line? I'm not saying they'd say they would love it. But I wonder if the majority would be a bit more positive overall.

And I believe JW is definitely the most well received sequel among the GA. Although I badly wish TLW could hold that crown.

Troyal1 wrote:

Yea it was a really dumb mistake, and I agree with you that more people definitely prefer TLW. But I'm still not so sure about how much more the GA likes it over 3(in terms of how they would rate it). I wish we could do a massive poll asking people in retrospect of how they view TLW. I'm pretty confident  it would be more positive than it was on release.

They rushed JP3. It's true. But I loved that film. And I know it's something we are never going to agree on.

But I wonder If people in retrospect would look at 3 in a better light down the line? I'm not saying they'd say they would love it. But I wonder if the majority would be a bit more positive overall.

And I believe JW is definitely the most well received sequel among the GA. Although I badly wish TLW could hold that crown.

I think that it's possible that TLW could overtake JW as the most well received. As for JP3, I think it's now being slightly better looked at, but it simply has too many flaws, many of them being pretty big ones, to ever be looked at as other then a mediocre to barely average movie.

Had to check for a minute just to make sure I wasn't in this thread.

https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t937-general-audiences-reaction-to-the-sequels#12623

Carry on.

So far, only Bryce is doing teasers. This secrecy is making me angry. Hope the title leaks soon.

Remind me again, is Chris Pratt on set right now? I'm confused with the whole IW thing.