Crap.....The Mummy reboot made $400 million which may be enough to justify a sequel.
I still say that Universal should have used all this money to make an animated series that tied in to original trilogy with this new one.
You and me both man... honestly if the argument of box office strength and public interest equal to the franchise you want to invest most in, then the Universal Monsters catalogue is too far down the ladder. Jurassic Park isn't cinematic universe material, but it's worth far more to Universal right now than their classic monsters are. They've had all these chances since The Mummy and they've blown them every single time. If they struck while the iron was still hot from Van Helsing (comparatively speaking) then maybe it'd be a different story.
I just think that this is a sign of 3 things.
1. Just how out of touch Universal really is.
2. How little they care about the JP franchise. How they really never cared since The Lost World, how it's been at the mercy of the directors (J.A. Bayona, the animatronics, and nostalgia/childhood love of dinosaurs are the main reasons I'm seeing JW:FK at this point) and writers since, and how much missed opportunities they have, etc.
3. How so little people care about the old Universal monsters. Other then Dracula, who was actually a real-life person, I just think that these Universal monsters are just products of their time.That and with the Tomb Raider and Castlevainia video game franchises, did we really need the Dark Universe anyway? I say no.
(Disclaimer: Not really Dark Universe related, but more Universal/JP related tangent to follow)
While I agree with points 1 and 3 especially, since Universal should stop throwing money at the Dark Universe, I think it's debatable that they don't care at all about the JP franchise. I do think they have been greatly underestimating it for a long time now, but if they really didn't care then the director of the fifth film would have been another director for hire along the lines of Robert Stromberg (from Maleficent) or Alan Taylor. Ironically, its that kind of apathy that's more on display in Alex Kurtzman's take on The Mummy that really undid that movie from top to bottom. Especially since the man is far more known for his sloppy scripts than any kind of directing skills.
In all honesty, based on what we have been seeing about JW: Fallen Kingdom, I'm starting to believe that they aren't taking the route many of us feared they would, i.e. militarized dinosaurs, and could be going somewhere more akin to the Crichton books. Plus Bayona's set of skills are very well tailored to this kind of story and could make the more outlandish elements work better than the previous film. Plus the fact that we ARE getting a park builder game to coincide with the release of JW:FK is to me another indication that they're taking the hint, and if this proves to be a hit with the fans then it will be because they tapped into what would resonate with their audience and have more confidence in the franchise as a result. If all this optimism on my part proves in vain, at least they will have done SOMETHING more ambitious than a bunch of mobile games and the Lego game.
Yes, we still lack those much-talked about comics and an animated series or some kind of bridge story to really shore up connections between JP3 and JW. However, with the acquisition of DreamWorks Animation and all of their TV shows, they now have the assets to follow through with that, but these things do take time.
You could be right. It's just that I'm starting to see the JP franchise as one where so much potential was either wasted/unused and it may not get as larger as it is now. I talked about this with Ty here and he felt the same way I did. The only way how I see things changing is if the rights go to another studio all fixes the canon by either making said wanted animated series, movies that tie the trilogies together, or both.
TBH, I'm starting to think that after all that were to happen, that the only way how JP can ever reach the height it was really meant to be is if after all the canon holes are filled, that the franchise gets remade outright.
And I agree with you on Van Helsing. Yes, it probably would have devolved into something stupid, but at least it would have been fun.
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Angelina Jolie still isn't confirmed for Bride Of Frankenstein.
I still don't get why Universal is willing to pump in more money to this crippled franchise that was botched and that few people wanted from the get go.
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Universal Just Shut Down Production on ‘Bride of Frankenstein’
RIP Dark Universe. I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. This whole Dark Universe was a mistake. Other then Dracula, who Universal botched with Dracula: Untold, most of these monsters are simply too much of products of their time. They would have been better off pumping all this money they wasted into making the Jurassic Park franchise bigger and better via an animated cartoon show that would have connected the original trilogy with this new one.
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If you don't know history, then you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree. Michael Crichton
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Universal Just Shut Down Production on ‘Bride of Frankenstein’
RIP Dark Universe. I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. This whole Dark Universe was a mistake. Other then Dracula, who Universal botched with Dracula: Untold, most of these monsters are simply too much of products of their time. They would have been better off pumping all this money they wasted into making the Jurassic Park franchise bigger and better via an animated cartoon show that would have connected the original trilogy with this new one.
But here’s the real question... will they hopefully try again and do it properly? Or be arrogant again?
Or walk away completely. I hope they try because I think it could be interesting.
Although yes I’d rather see that money in Jurassic Park all the way.
Universal Just Shut Down Production on ‘Bride of Frankenstein’
RIP Dark Universe. I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. This whole Dark Universe was a mistake. Other then Dracula, who Universal botched with Dracula: Untold, most of these monsters are simply too much of products of their time. They would have been better off pumping all this money they wasted into making the Jurassic Park franchise bigger and better via an animated cartoon show that would have connected the original trilogy with this new one.
But here’s the real question... will they hopefully try again and do it properly? Or be arrogant again?
Or walk away completely. I hope they try because I think it could be interesting.
Although yes I’d rather see that money in Jurassic Park all the way.
The Mummy reboot was the 2nd try, and it critically failed. How many tries can they do? It's not like WB via the DCEU. Superhero/Superheroines are timeless that are not constrained by time. The same holds true with the JP dinosaurs (except for the JP3 Spinosaurus which was based on dubious science via a lot of speculation and very partial remains of Baryonyx and Suchomimus). At least Man Of Steel made a profit and had enough people like it.
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The official statement is that the project has been postponed, but that's thinly veiled studio speak for "we're cancelling this production."
I don't think anyone here wanted The Mummy to turn out as it did. The very premise of taking classic horror films known more for their atmosphere and suggestive storytelling and turning them into hollow action movies without any of the appeal or trappings of their period setting and no clear tone was a horrendous idea from the start. It was a square peg in a round hole sort of effect and it showed. They should walk away at this point, they have nothing to gain from trying to take a piece of the pie. They had a shot with Stephen Sommers Mummy and Van Helsing films, but lost it. They made a better (but still weak) attempt with Dracula Untold and that still fell short. Tom Cruise's The Mummy is the low-point of all of this.
While not big budget blockbusters, the Blumhouse horror films have proven to be highly profitable on such low budgets, frankly they're more keeping with the spirit of the 30s horror classics than Dark Universe ever could be. 2015 should have been resounding proof to Universal that they didn't need cinematic universes to keep up with the competition, they just needed appealing film franchises that the general public enjoyed: Illumination (quality aside), Fast & Furious (ditto), and Jurassic Park. All of those are still going strong, and frankly the last of those three has a pedigree that the other two can't touch. If we're lucky, there might still be time for them to learn this lesson.
If we're lucky, there might still be time for them to learn this lesson.
I'm not sure. At this point, it might be too late for an animated JP/JW show. Even more so considering how the rights revert back to the Crichton estate after JP6/JW3, which isn't that far away. The F&F franchise can only last so long before people get tried of it. (Transformers anybody?) And can Universal really count on Minions to save them?
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Last edited by Rhedosaurus on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
BarrytheOnyx Veteran
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f we're lucky, there might still be time for them to learn this lesson.
I'm not sure. At this point, it might be too late for an animated JP/JW show. Even more so considering how the rights revert back to the Crichton estate after JP6/JW3, which isn't that far away. The F&F franchise can only last so long before people get tried of it. (Transformers anybody?) And can Universal really count on Minions to save them?
All of these are true and valid points, the Fast & Furious franchise can't last forever, and neither can the Minions franchise. If anything, the lifeline is still present in the form of Jurassic Park: if they don't announce an animated series by mid 2018 then at that point I think the opportunity will have been lost. As for the Crichton estate, I'm still not putting as much stock in it as you are. I'm not saying that's not going to happen (they have stipulated only a new trilogy so far) but the rest of the produced films and associated properties will remain at the studio in perpetuity afterwards, so they still have a window of time.
f we're lucky, there might still be time for them to learn this lesson.
I'm not sure. At this point, it might be too late for an animated JP/JW show. Even more so considering how the rights revert back to the Crichton estate after JP6/JW3, which isn't that far away. The F&F franchise can only last so long before people get tried of it. (Transformers anybody?) And can Universal really count on Minions to save them?
All of these are true and valid points, the Fast & Furious franchise can't last forever, and neither can the Minions franchise. If anything, the lifeline is still present in the form of Jurassic Park: if they don't announce an animated series by mid 2018 then at that point I think the opportunity will have been lost. As for the Crichton estate, I'm still not putting as much stock in it as you are. I'm not saying that's not going to happen (they have stipulated only a new trilogy so far) but the rest of the produced films and associated properties will remain at the studio in perpetuity afterwards, so they still have a window of time.
I just think that if Universal loses the rights to the JP franchise, then it's game over. They have nothing else except Bourne and that can't last forever either. And they pretty much lost Kong, so he can't be used either. Unless Paramount goes down for good and Universal buys some of the film rights and/or convinces James Cameron to make Terminator movies under Universal's banner while he still keeps the rights, the only other option is for them to make something original/make new movies out of things that haven't been adapted for the big screen for sometime.
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Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:23 am
Universal is STILL pumping good money after bad.
It's being described as " ‘Fast and the Furious’ meets ‘The Avengers’ – but with super monsters."
Other then people who enjoy 'trainwreck movies', does ANYBODY want to see this cinematic universe anymore?
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Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:38 am
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Universal is STILL pumping good money after bad.
It's being described as " ‘Fast and the Furious’ meets ‘The Avengers’ – but with super monsters."
Other then people who enjoy 'trainwreck movies', does ANYBODY want to see this cinematic universe anymore?
Wow they have to be kidding?
Why not use this extra time to make a dark universe people really want to see that is more horror focused? It can be done. And on a smaller budget too I think.
BarrytheOnyx Veteran
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Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:10 am
Troyal1 wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Universal is STILL pumping good money after bad.
It's being described as " ‘Fast and the Furious’ meets ‘The Avengers’ – but with super monsters."
Other then people who enjoy 'trainwreck movies', does ANYBODY want to see this cinematic universe anymore?
Wow they have to be kidding?
Why not use this extra time to make a dark universe people really want to see that is more horror focused? It can be done. And on a smaller budget too I think.
WHY are they so desperate to revive their classic monster in all the wrong ways possible?!?
I like Gal Gadot (quite a bit in fact) but she's not exactly Angelina Jolie levels of acting talent and she works as Wonder Woman because of how much that character is written around her real life personality.
And yes, I agree, they don't need to pump half a billion dollars into the making of these films, they just need a great script, great atmosphere and. At this point, I am glad the Jurassic franchise will likely conclude at a third film, because its clear to me that they can't milk it to the same extent as their other franchises. And to be honest, the Universal Pictures that greenlit Jurassic Park and maintained a consistent look and personality until 2005 feels like a different beast from the one that we have today.
Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:12 pm
Troyal1 wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Universal is STILL pumping good money after bad.
It's being described as " ‘Fast and the Furious’ meets ‘The Avengers’ – but with super monsters."
Other then people who enjoy 'trainwreck movies', does ANYBODY want to see this cinematic universe anymore?
Wow they have to be kidding?
Why not use this extra time to make a dark universe people really want to see that is more horror focused? It can be done. And on a smaller budget too I think.
At this point, it would be too little, too late. As I said before, even the DCEU started off on a better note then this.
BarrytheOnyx wrote:
WHY are they so desperate to revive their classic monster in all the wrong ways possible?!?
I like Gal Gadot (quite a bit in fact) but she's not exactly Angelina Jolie levels of acting talent and she works as Wonder Woman because of how much that character is written around her real life personality.
And yes, I agree, they don't need to pump half a billion dollars into the making of these films, they just need a great script, great atmosphere and. At this point, I am glad the Jurassic franchise will likely conclude at a third film, because its clear to me that they can't milk it to the same extent as their other franchises. And to be honest, the Universal Pictures that greenlit Jurassic Park and maintained a consistent look and personality until 2005 feels like a different beast from the one that we have today.
Indeed, Gal Gadot worked so well as Wonder Woman due to her being in the Israeli army so having her be a real-life butt kicker and having the character being molded around that was a good idea. Angelina Jolie's early start being being a dark/gothic character would fit this movie-if it even gets made better.
Hopefully you two now fully/mostly see why I want the rights to go to another studio. Because unless Universal has somebody really really special, basically a Kevin Feige for the Jurassic Park franchise-I just think that the Jurassic Park franchise will basically be doomed. It's really sad that TLW was the last JP movie that they really cared about.
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If you don't know history, then you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree. Michael Crichton
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BarrytheOnyx Veteran
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Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:37 pm
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Hopefully you two now fully/mostly see why I want the rights to go to another studio. Because unless Universal has somebody really really special, basically a Kevin Feige for the Jurassic Park franchise-I just think that the Jurassic Park franchise will basically be doomed. It's really sad that TLW was the last JP movie that they really cared about.
Then who, in your opinion is the Kevin Feige figure of the Jurassic sequel trilogy? Is it Spielberg? Is it Trevorrow, Frank Marshall or J.A. Bayona? As much as I disapprove of how the studio is going about its business in the majority of its major releases, Jurassic Park is not doomed, at least not yet. We will have to wait to see Fallen Kingdom and indeed JW: Evolution before making that judgement call.
Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:49 pm
BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Hopefully you two now fully/mostly see why I want the rights to go to another studio. Because unless Universal has somebody really really special, basically a Kevin Feige for the Jurassic Park franchise-I just think that the Jurassic Park franchise will basically be doomed. It's really sad that TLW was the last JP movie that they really cared about.
Then who, in your opinion is the Kevin Feige figure of the Jurassic sequel trilogy? Is it Spielberg? Is it Trevorrow, Frank Marshall or J.A. Bayona? As much as I disapprove of how the studio is going about its business in the majority of its major releases, Jurassic Park is not doomed, at least not yet. We will have to wait to see Fallen Kingdom and indeed JW: Evolution before making that judgement call.
That's a good question and to be honest, I don't know. Barring JW, Spielberg has got too lazy to be trusted with the franchise. He sat back and let Michael Bay run the Transformers franchise into the ground from the first sequel and will let him finish the job with the 6th one with Unicron and before then, he did the same thing with JP3. As for the other 3, they are just too new. If the leaked ending happens, then I might give Bayona a shot. At this point, I still what the franchise to do well...but at the same time, I really don't trust Universal with the franchise. It's become more to me that the JP franchise starting from the dormant period, one could even argue since JP3, has been a franchise at the mercy of the directors and without a solid plan. Even with JW, Universal had no plan in case it did what it did.
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Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:18 pm
Rhedosaurus wrote:
BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Hopefully you two now fully/mostly see why I want the rights to go to another studio. Because unless Universal has somebody really really special, basically a Kevin Feige for the Jurassic Park franchise-I just think that the Jurassic Park franchise will basically be doomed. It's really sad that TLW was the last JP movie that they really cared about.
Then who, in your opinion is the Kevin Feige figure of the Jurassic sequel trilogy? Is it Spielberg? Is it Trevorrow, Frank Marshall or J.A. Bayona? As much as I disapprove of how the studio is going about its business in the majority of its major releases, Jurassic Park is not doomed, at least not yet. We will have to wait to see Fallen Kingdom and indeed JW: Evolution before making that judgement call.
That's a good question and to be honest, I don't know. Barring JW, Spielberg has got too lazy to be trusted with the franchise. He sat back and let Michael Bay run the Transformers franchise into the ground from the first sequel and will let him finish the job with the 6th one with Unicron and before then, he did the same thing with JP3. As for the other 3, they are just too new. If the leaked ending happens, then I might give Bayona a shot. At this point, I still what the franchise to do well...but at the same time, I really don't trust Universal with the franchise. It's become more to me that the JP franchise starting from the dormant period, one could even argue since JP3, has been a franchise at the mercy of the directors and without a solid plan. Even with JW, Universal had no plan in case it did what it did.
I don’t think Bayona would be the type to want to stick around and plan tons of other JP stuff.
As a JP fan it hurts. I don’t understand what we as the audience are doing wrong. JW made so much money and we need a cinematic universe that every other top tier franchise has.
I bet you even if JW evolution does well the plans won’t change under current leadership. I know that’s an incredibly pessimistic thing to say but that’s how I see it.
I really don’t want Disney anywhere near my Jurassic Park, but as time goes on I find myself agreeing more with you. We need someone who can be the “JP Kevin” AND provide creative freedom.
Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:41 pm
Troyal1 wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
BarrytheOnyx wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Hopefully you two now fully/mostly see why I want the rights to go to another studio. Because unless Universal has somebody really really special, basically a Kevin Feige for the Jurassic Park franchise-I just think that the Jurassic Park franchise will basically be doomed. It's really sad that TLW was the last JP movie that they really cared about.
Then who, in your opinion is the Kevin Feige figure of the Jurassic sequel trilogy? Is it Spielberg? Is it Trevorrow, Frank Marshall or J.A. Bayona? As much as I disapprove of how the studio is going about its business in the majority of its major releases, Jurassic Park is not doomed, at least not yet. We will have to wait to see Fallen Kingdom and indeed JW: Evolution before making that judgement call.
That's a good question and to be honest, I don't know. Barring JW, Spielberg has got too lazy to be trusted with the franchise. He sat back and let Michael Bay run the Transformers franchise into the ground from the first sequel and will let him finish the job with the 6th one with Unicron and before then, he did the same thing with JP3. As for the other 3, they are just too new. If the leaked ending happens, then I might give Bayona a shot. At this point, I still what the franchise to do well...but at the same time, I really don't trust Universal with the franchise. It's become more to me that the JP franchise starting from the dormant period, one could even argue since JP3, has been a franchise at the mercy of the directors and without a solid plan. Even with JW, Universal had no plan in case it did what it did.
I don’t think Bayona would be the type to want to stick around and plan tons of other JP stuff.
As a JP fan it hurts. I don’t understand what we as the audience are doing wrong. JW made so much money and we need a cinematic universe that every other top tier franchise has.
I bet you even if JW evolution does well the plans won’t change under current leadership. I know that’s an incredibly pessimistic thing to say but that’s how I see it.
I really don’t want Disney anywhere near my Jurassic Park, but as time goes on I find myself agreeing more with you. We need someone who can be the “JP Kevin” AND provide creative freedom.
Personally, I want either Fox or WB to get the rights after the 6th movie. I really am sickened and sad by how Universal has treat the franchise since TLW. I'm only going to this movie because of how J.A. Bayona gets the franchise more then Trevorrow may have and due to childhood nostalgia and love of dinosaurs. I trust him as the director more then I trust the higher ups at Universal.
_______________ The undisputed dominant predator of Jurassic Mainframe.
If you don't know history, then you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree. Michael Crichton
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Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:56 am
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen. It's official.
R.I.P Dark Universe.
Karma.
Frankly, I don't need a cinematic universe to create modern film iterations of the classic monsters, I have them already: - Bram Stoker's Dracula - Mary Shelley's Frankenstein - An American Werewolf in London - The Mummy (1999)
Eve Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow feels more like one of Universal's classics as well as the Hammer series as has already been noted. Plus, Guillermo Del Toro's film The Shape of Water looks for all intents and purposes to be a modern re-adaptation of The Creature from the Black Lagoon.
The key factor: they're all from different studios and NOT a cinematic universe!
_______________ "Life will find a way."
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Universal Originally Offered Guillermo del Toro Control of the Monsters Universe
Del toro was the one who passed on it, back in 2007, but it’s depressing to think that these films could have had a very different outlook with someone like him. I feel really bad for Del Toro. Even when he’s the one who turned something down it still feels like the guy can’t catch a break.
Universal Originally Offered Guillermo del Toro Control of the Monsters Universe
Del toro was the one who passed on it, back in 2007, but it’s depressing to think that these films could have had a very different outlook with someone like him. I feel really bad for Del Toro. Even when he’s the one who turned something down it still feels like the guy can’t catch a break.
He really is/was one of the very few who could have made this work. I would have loved to see him make one of the classic monster movies. With that said, we did get Pacific Rim and this new sequel coming out soon, so at least his monster movie dreams didn't totally go waste.
_______________ The undisputed dominant predator of Jurassic Mainframe.
If you don't know history, then you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree. Michael Crichton
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Troyal1 Veteran
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Universal Originally Offered Guillermo del Toro Control of the Monsters Universe
Del toro was the one who passed on it, back in 2007, but it’s depressing to think that these films could have had a very different outlook with someone like him. I feel really bad for Del Toro. Even when he’s the one who turned something down it still feels like the guy can’t catch a break.
He really is/was one of the very few who could have made this work. I would have loved to see him make one of the classic monster movies. With that said, we did get Pacific Rim and this new sequel coming out soon, so at least his monster movie dreams didn't totally go waste.
That’s right! And the shape of water is definitely something that looks like it could belong in a monster movie or universe.
I’m not even a massive Del Toro. But seeing how many missed opportunities this guy gets makes me wish the human life span was so much longer. So much of the stuff he has planned seems to end in tragedy. I wish he could be a Spielberg and pump out two movies a year and do it all lol.
Subject: Re: Universal's CLASSIC MONSTERS Thread Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:07 am
Troyal1 wrote:
Rhedosaurus wrote:
Troyal1 wrote:
Universal Originally Offered Guillermo del Toro Control of the Monsters Universe
Del toro was the one who passed on it, back in 2007, but it’s depressing to think that these films could have had a very different outlook with someone like him. I feel really bad for Del Toro. Even when he’s the one who turned something down it still feels like the guy can’t catch a break.
He really is/was one of the very few who could have made this work. I would have loved to see him make one of the classic monster movies. With that said, we did get Pacific Rim and this new sequel coming out soon, so at least his monster movie dreams didn't totally go waste.
That’s right! And the shape of water is definitely something that looks like it could belong in a monster movie or universe.
I’m not even a massive Del Toro. But seeing how many missed opportunities this guy gets makes me wish the human life span was so much longer. So much of the stuff he has planned seems to end in tragedy. I wish he could be a Spielberg and pump out two movies a year and do it all lol.
Personally, I want him or Peter Jackson to make unmade Ray Harryhausen projects for WB rather then to have him try and revive a dead EU. Make a remake of 'The Lost World' but have the setting be in the Congo Basin and have the Rhedosaurus be the alpha predator. After all, the original 1925 silent black and white version is STILL the best of all the movie adaptations made so might as well go big.
_______________ The undisputed dominant predator of Jurassic Mainframe.
If you don't know history, then you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree. Michael Crichton
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Guollermo del Toro give the main reason why high level monster reboots, I.E. The Dark Universe, are not working.
Quote wrote:
I think that there is a postmodern attitude towards the genre that tries to disarm or disassemble the genre in a postmodern way and I think that when you approach characters with earnest love, it’s a lot less safe because you’re not above the material. You are high on your own supply and it’s easier to be ironic, so I think that’s part of it. But then you have ambivalent things like Jordan Peele nailing it and making it not ironic, but reflexive. And he’s a fusion of reverence and intelligence. It’s a good year for the genre for sure.
At least Universal still has Pacific Rim and it's sequel as its main monster franchise.
_______________ The undisputed dominant predator of Jurassic Mainframe.
If you don't know history, then you don't know anything. You are a leaf that doesn't know it is part of a tree. Michael Crichton
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Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:58 pm
