How bothered will you be if Sorna isn’t mentioned?

Sorna doesn’t need to exist for this film. There are dozens of uninhabited islands these rescued dinosaurs could be planned on going to, and the existence of another island with dinosaurs on them might confuse audiences. The characters would have to explain why the island is there, what it was used for, etc, all while making it so the volcano really wouldn’t make the dinosaurs extinct again (aside from certain species).

It’s very possible that Sorna will be completely unmentioned, or even implied to be barren via dialogue about the Nublar stock being the only ones on Earth. I strongly hope that Sorna will be addressed in the film, or at the very least, some kind of remark about dinosaurs existing on another island. I would be incredibly bothered if Fallen Kingdom were to just pretend that Sorna doesn’t exist. When it comes to things like new species appearing, the spino skeleton debacle, and so forth, I’m pretty relaxed, but I’m really taking a hardline attitude on this one. J. A. Bayona said he wants this to be Jurassic Park 5 more than Jurassic World was JP4, and hopefully that’s a good sign.

MASSIVELY!

Sorry, but these sites that Universal is saying is canon are NOT good enough for me. I want a direct reference to Sorna, or at least a few references about what happened in The Lost World. Say what you want about The Force Awakens, but even though that movie was a far more nostalgia fest then Jurassic World, at least it ensured that the prequels were still canon via Kylo Ren's one line about a clone army.



If Star Wars can do that and more via Rogue One, Rebels, etc, then surely these new movies can have solid references to Sorna or at least TLW.

We don't have to see it, but some on screen acknowledgement of it would be nice. I can't say I wouldn't be disappointed if we don't see it.

If the movie is great, then the movie is great period.

But I cannot tell you how much I want direct acknowledgement. Owen asking Lockwood about what happened to site B or what’s going on and him telling us.

My idea for how it would go is this. Lockwood tells them a second team will put the Nublar animals on Sorna at a later date, but that it’ll need some organization so they will bring the Dino’s back to a classified location to “keep them safe”. Lockwood manor.

Since I consider the JW, Masrani, DPG websites canon I wouldn't be too bothered but I would consider it a big miss opportunity.

I was furious in 2015 when I saw that all of the marketing and the movie Jurassic World itself avoided at all cost any mention or reference of Isla Sorna (and almost acted like The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3 in general did not exist).

At first I said to myself "Let's give Universal the benefit of the doubt, maybe they wanted to play it safe in Jurassic World, but now that Jurassic World made a huge amount of money, they will probably take some risks in Jurassic World 2 and conect it with events from TLW and JP3."

How wrong was I...

When many pictures, rumors, and the plot outline of Fallen Kingdom started to surface in 2017 everything made it more clear than ever that Universal really believes the myth that "People only like the original Jurassic Park, nobody has ever cared for TLW or JP3". Everything in JWFK was once again about, Nublar, Rexy, the original Ford Explorers, the original locations, Malcolm saying lines from the original...

All of that ended whatever faith I had in this sequel. So, If Sorna is not even mentioned in this one (while very dissapointing) would not surprise me one bit.

As much as that isn't an uncommon view among people here, it's frankly more evident in Bayona's style and direction that the darker tone of The Lost World is anything but absent from the film. While more direct callbacks to characters, lines and locations are not adhered to to the same extent as they are to the first film, it can hardly be called a clone of JW or JP.

Gone are the bright colours of John Schwartzman's cinematography and now we have Oscar Faura's more muted palette, and instead of bright, clean looking jungles on Nublar we have darker and foggier rainforests and the ruined remains of human construction (i.e. the destroyed park to the abandoned InGen communications center). One may remember how the Male T. rex sniffed about inside Sarah and Kelly's tent while the terrified occupants could only lie still, just like the Indoraptor sniffing out Lucy in her bedroom. And many articles have noted that the transportation of dinosaurs off-island to a mainland facility and encroaching on human habitation is a call-back to the San Diego climax of TLW. And the frustrating thing is that this often doesn't raise any kind of excitement from these general public commentators, Kristian Harloff of Collider Video for example finds such similarities to TLW either repetitive or off-putting. Ultimately, I do empathize with fans who want more concrete proof that the previous sequels are still hard canon, but I believe that if they had been disregarded completely we wouldn't be getting a film like JW: Fallen Kingdom and would have probably gone the militarized raptors route, maybe the Human/Dinosaur hybrids would have been revived in doing so.

I’ve give this some more thought. Here’s where I’m at: if Sorna isn’t mentioned, I’ll be disappointed. If we get lines about the dinosaurs becoming extinct again because of the volcano, implying that Sorna doesn’t exist, I’ll be pissed. If we’re never told where the rescued dinosaurs are supposed to be going, It’ll be a mark not just against FK as a JP movie, but a film on its own.

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

I’ve give this some more thought. Here’s where I’m at: if Sorna isn’t mentioned, I’ll be disappointed. If we get lines about the dinosaurs becoming extinct again because of the volcano, implying that Sorna doesn’t exist, I’ll be pissed. If we’re never told where the rescued dinosaurs are supposed to be going, It’ll be a mark not just against FK as a JP movie, but a film on its own.

Are there many dinosaurs still left on Sorna if any at all? We know several dinosaurs from Sorna were brought to Nublar for Jurassic World so maybe at this point Sorna is totally devoid of dinosaur life and would the volcanic eruption manage to effect Sorna in any way?

On the JW website the DPG says the volcano endangers the last remaining dinosaurs which to me implies the only living dinosaurs are on Nublar.

Would i love them to mention Sorna, of course.

Would it bother me if they dont, not really.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

MASSIVELY!

Sorry, but these sites that Universal is saying is canon are NOT good enough for me. I want a direct reference to Sorna, or at least a few references about what happened in The Lost World. Say what you want about The Force Awakens, but even though that movie was a far more nostalgia fest then Jurassic World, at least it ensured that the prequels were still canon via Kylo Ren's one line about a clone army.



If Star Wars can do that and more via Rogue One, Rebels, etc, then surely these new movies can have solid references to Sorna or at least TLW.

How does that line ensure the prequels being canon (I know they are still canon though) since The Clone Wars itself was mention in the very first SW film.

The new SW films are doing the same thing as the JW films: Plenty references to the original trilogy/JP but little or none to the prequels/TLW & JP3.

Dr. Wu wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

MASSIVELY!

Sorry, but these sites that Universal is saying is canon are NOT good enough for me. I want a direct reference to Sorna, or at least a few references about what happened in The Lost World. Say what you want about The Force Awakens, but even though that movie was a far more nostalgia fest then Jurassic World, at least it ensured that the prequels were still canon via Kylo Ren's one line about a clone army.



If Star Wars can do that and more via Rogue One, Rebels, etc, then surely these new movies can have solid references to Sorna or at least TLW.

How does that line ensure the prequels being canon (I know they are still canon though) since The Clone Wars itself was mention in the very first SW film.

The new SW films are doing the same thing as the JW films: Plenty references to the original trilogy/JP but little or none to the prequels/TLW & JP3.

Because since Disney was already ret-conning the prequels, many thought that the prequels would be removed out of the canon outright like X3: The Last Stand and to a degree, Wolverine: Origins were ret-conned out of the X-Men franchise via Days Of Future Past. That one line ensured that the prequels are still canon.

Also, unlike JP, Star Wars has TV shows and books that expand the universe while still being canon to the movies. Sorry, but these new sites are not good enough for me. A 'finished' site can be changed on a whim by people who make it. It's not unlike how people don't consider Wikipedia to be a proper source of info. With a book or TV show that's finished, it's far more concrete.

Dr. Wu wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

I’ve give this some more thought. Here’s where I’m at: if Sorna isn’t mentioned, I’ll be disappointed. If we get lines about the dinosaurs becoming extinct again because of the volcano, implying that Sorna doesn’t exist, I’ll be pissed. If we’re never told where the rescued dinosaurs are supposed to be going, It’ll be a mark not just against FK as a JP movie, but a film on its own.

Are there many dinosaurs still left on Sorna if any at all? We know several dinosaurs from Sorna were brought to Nublar for Jurassic World so maybe at this point Sorna is totally devoid of dinosaur life and would the volcanic eruption manage to effect Sorna in any way?

On the JW website the DPG says the volcano endangers the last remaining dinosaurs which to me implies the only living dinosaurs are on Nublar.

I’m aware of what the DPG website says, hopefully there isn’t any language like that in the actual movie. Keep in mind that if Sorna is now barren, it had nothing to do with InGen. It couldn’t have. Imagine the ridiculous financial undertaking and pointlessness of taking each individual of each dinosaur species. The site also says the ecosystem was thrown into chaos, not eliminated. Really, if there are no dinosaurs on Sorna, it would have to be from something like DX.

TBH I feel the longer we go without it being directly and implicitly mentioned, the harder it will be in the future for it to be mentioned again here. That's been kind of my thought about it since JW's viral stuff was the only mention of the status of the island and so far FK's viral is the only mention thus far although that is more indirect in a lot of ways too. I will probably be bothered if it isn't name-dropped in the film at this point with an explanation imported for why it hasn't been a center of focus in the slightest lately.

As for if we get to see it, I think if it's part of the story it should get included physically as well, but like I said, the longer we go without it getting a direct mention in the newer films the harder it will be for it to reappear in a meaningful way in the future and that is something I particularly dread.

TyrannosaurTJ wrote:

TBH I feel the longer we go without it being directly and implicitly mentioned, the harder it will be in the future for it to be mentioned again here. That's been kind of my thought about it since JW's viral stuff was the only mention of the status of the island and so far FK's viral is the only mention thus far although that is more indirect in a lot of ways too. I will probably be bothered if it isn't name-dropped in the film at this point with an explanation imported for why it hasn't been a center of focus in the slightest lately.

As for if we get to see it, I think if it's part of the story it should get included physically as well, but like I said, the longer we go without it getting a direct mention in the newer films the harder it will be for it to reappear in a meaningful way in the future and that is something I particularly dread.

I think if that happens then there are 2 ways how the Sorna movies can still be canon. But first, the rights have to go back to the Crichton estate and then Disney gets the rights. More on this condition later. Anyway, here are the 2 ways.

1. We get a movie or at least an animated cartoon show that take place between JP3 and JW.

2. The 5th and 6th movies get ret-conned out of the franchise. Like Fox ret-conned X-Men 3 and much, if not all, of Wolverine Origins out of existance.

Now let me explain my Disney condition. Many fans-which includes you Ty-consider Universal's handling of the franchise poor since TLW. There are just so much things that Universal could have done, yet didn't. I honestly think that Disney were to get the rights, then they would treat the franchise with far more respect. I believe that if Universal were to regain the franchise, then it is doomed.

In JW there was hardly any reason to mention Sorna. However, there is more reason to do mention it in FK since they probably want to ship the dinosaurs to some other island (Sorna). So in that sense they have to mention it, not because of canon (since the JW viral sites already mentioned the Sorna events) but because it would be very odd story wise.

I could see Sorna coming up in the courtroom scene. Claire goes, “We already have a place for these animals to go. The only other island with dinosaurs on it, Isla Sorna. The factory floor of the original park. If we could ship the dinosaurs there, nobody would be disturbed.” As she says this, show a herd of dinosaurs on Sorna via video footage in the courtroom.

Honestlu I can’t help but think that the movie will just pretend there’s no such thing as Sorna. Why is Lockwood grabbing dinosaurs off of Nublar instead of Sorna? Because there is no Sorna! Then again I suppose he needs the pretense of “rescuing” them from the volcano, so yeah, as long as they don’t say anything that puts Sorna into doubt, I’m assuming it’s still there. Bonus points for a mention.

@Amadieus, they could be relocating the dinosaurs to any old barren island. Sorna isn’t needed.

But the big picture here is...Isla Sorna is the second most important location in the Jurassic Park franchise, the entire plot of 2 sequels centers around it. It is an island full of dinosaur species, and the dinosaurs that come from it caused very notorious events like the San Diego incident, and the situation with the Kirbys...


And yet for 2 sequels in a row now Universal has almost avoided even mentioning the island not only within Jurassic World and Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom but also the marketing and tie in promotional material that comes with those movies.

Let that sink in.

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

I could see Sorna coming up in the courtroom scene. Claire goes, “We already have a place for these animals to go. The only other island with dinosaurs on it, Isla Sorna. The factory floor of the original park. If we could ship the dinosaurs there, nobody would be disturbed.” As she says this, show a herd of dinosaurs on Sorna via video footage in the courtroom.

Honestlu I can’t help but think that the movie will just pretend there’s no such thing as Sorna. Why is Lockwood grabbing dinosaurs off of Nublar instead of Sorna? Because there is no Sorna! Then again I suppose he needs the pretense of “rescuing” them from the volcano, so yeah, as long as they don’t say anything that puts Sorna into doubt, I’m assuming it’s still there. Bonus points for a mention.

@Amadieus, they could be relocating the dinosaurs to any old barren island. Sorna isn’t needed.

I'm pretty sure this is how it will go down in the movie.

Can't imagine Jurassic Park without the Universal logo and fanfare.

I agree, I don't think Disney would care about the details of the franchise much more than Universal does. Both Disney and Universal see a big film franchise as just another cash cow. Disney does tend to milk the cow dry more than Universal but that's about it.

They have done with Star Wars more or less the same thing Universal has done with Jurassic. Cash in on the nostalgia of the original, ignore what they believe to be the unpopular sequels/prequels, and cash in on brand name recognition.

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

And having Universal keep it would be better? It's clear that they haven't cared about the franchise since The Lost World. JP3 was made for the sake of having a trilogy and even then, that was made without any clear plan. And, while I still like the movie, JW should have been much better.

Not only that, but other then these sites and this new movie, what had Universal done with much of the money that JW made? Nothing! They had no idea/plan what to do if JW was successful. We should be getting an animated cartoon show that connects the OT with this new one a la Star Wars: Rebels, comic books, the whole 9 yards. Instead, Universal just let all this positive momentum largely go to waste.

Say what you want about Disney, but at least they know how to maximize their products. I'd rather have the JP franchise milked dry by Disney then let it go to waste by Universal.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

And having Universal keep it would be better? It's clear that they haven't cared about the franchise since The Lost World. JP3 was made for the sake of having a trilogy and even then, that was made without any clear plan. And, while I still like the movie, JW should have been much better.

Not only that, but other then these sites and this new movie, what had Universal done with much of the money that JW made? Nothing! They had no idea/plan what to do if JW was successful. We should be getting an animated cartoon show that connects the OT with this new one a la Star Wars: Rebels, comic books, the whole 9 yards. Instead, Universal just let all this positive momentum largely go to waste.

Say what you want about Disney, but at least they know how to maximize their products. I'd rather have the JP franchise milked dry by Disney then let it go to waste by Universal.

Disney buying more properties is bad for everyone. They already monopolize too much. Imo, Star Wars has been handled poorly and Marvel films are completely forgettable.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

And having Universal keep it would be better? It's clear that they haven't cared about the franchise since The Lost World. JP3 was made for the sake of having a trilogy and even then, that was made without any clear plan. And, while I still like the movie, JW should have been much better.

Not only that, but other then these sites and this new movie, what had Universal done with much of the money that JW made? Nothing! They had no idea/plan what to do if JW was successful. We should be getting an animated cartoon show that connects the OT with this new one a la Star Wars: Rebels, comic books, the whole 9 yards. Instead, Universal just let all this positive momentum largely go to waste.

Say what you want about Disney, but at least they know how to maximize their products. I'd rather have the JP franchise milked dry by Disney then let it go to waste by Universal.

Plus, a lot of that money went to the budget of the new one. Fallen Kingdom has a considerably larger budget than Jurassic world had, bringing us more animatronics. We're getting a book, we're getting a pretty damn good game, too

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

I go back and forth on it. On one hand i really want them to because i feel like they would offer the most content.

But could they really be consistent? I don't mean to start a debate here but we have seen that Disney, although they have honored canon are not in the "marvel stage" with Star wars fans yet.

TLJ is an example of this. No matter how you personally feel about it, it is pretty shocking that there was no plan after TFA in terms of story. That is crazy dumb to me. Solo also looks like it could be a very polarizing film.

Would they or could they be willing to provide what we desire for Jurassic park? Would they take risks? Would they turn it into a super family friendly comedy fest? Idk..... i think this franchise has a tough road ahead no matter what happens.

And the way Disney reacted to the Last Jedi backlash has turned off many fans.

Instead of saying "Yeah audiences seem to really not like this film", they have more or less acted like it's all good. We made money, and everyone is talking about it so it is still a win.

Troyal1 wrote:

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

I go back and forth on it. On one hand i really want them to because i feel like they would offer the most content.

But could they really be consistent? I don't mean to start a debate here but we have seen that Disney, although they have honored canon are not in the "marvel stage" with Star wars fans yet.

TLJ is an example of this. No matter how you personally feel about it, it is pretty shocking that there was no plan after TFA in terms of story. That is crazy dumb to me. Solo also looks like it could be a very polarizing film.

Would they or could they be willing to provide what we desire for Jurassic park? Would they take risks? Would they turn it into a super family friendly comedy fest? Idk..... i think this franchise has a tough road ahead no matter what happens.

I'm just happy it hasn't been handled like Transformers. Instead of giving us a director that nobody wants i.e. Michael Bay for 5 films, they instead go out of their way to bring in a proper director who has lots of talent.

Troyal1 wrote:

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

I'm sorry but Disney acquiring the rights to Jurassic Park would suck so bad.

I go back and forth on it. On one hand i really want them to because i feel like they would offer the most content.

But could they really be consistent? I don't mean to start a debate here but we have seen that Disney, although they have honored canon are not in the "marvel stage" with Star wars fans yet.

TLJ is an example of this. No matter how you personally feel about it, it is pretty shocking that there was no plan after TFA in terms of story. That is crazy dumb to me. Solo also looks like it could be a very polarizing film.

Would they or could they be willing to provide what we desire for Jurassic park? Would they take risks? Would they turn it into a super family friendly comedy fest? Idk..... i think this franchise has a tough road ahead no matter what happens.

But Disney getting Jurassic would mean any style the franchise had left will likely be sucked away in favour of bland, unstylish films every single year. I like Marvel films, but watching them once is absolutely enough. They're just so forgettable and lack any kind of replay value for me.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

TyrannosaurTJ wrote:

TBH I feel the longer we go without it being directly and implicitly mentioned, the harder it will be in the future for it to be mentioned again here. That's been kind of my thought about it since JW's viral stuff was the only mention of the status of the island and so far FK's viral is the only mention thus far although that is more indirect in a lot of ways too. I will probably be bothered if it isn't name-dropped in the film at this point with an explanation imported for why it hasn't been a center of focus in the slightest lately.

As for if we get to see it, I think if it's part of the story it should get included physically as well, but like I said, the longer we go without it getting a direct mention in the newer films the harder it will be for it to reappear in a meaningful way in the future and that is something I particularly dread.

I think if that happens then there are 2 ways how the Sorna movies can still be canon. But first, the rights have to go back to the Crichton estate and then Disney gets the rights. More on this condition later. Anyway, here are the 2 ways.

1. We get a movie or at least an animated cartoon show that take place between JP3 and JW.

2. The 5th and 6th movies get ret-conned out of the franchise. Like Fox ret-conned X-Men 3 and much, if not all, of Wolverine Origins out of existance.

Now let me explain my Disney condition. Many fans-which includes you Ty-consider Universal's handling of the franchise poor since TLW. There are just so much things that Universal could have done, yet didn't. I honestly think that Disney were to get the rights, then they would treat the franchise with far more respect. I believe that if Universal were to regain the franchise, then it is doomed.

I don't think the 5th and 6th movies need to get retconned out of the franchise here at least at this very moment. Especially considering that FK isn't even out yet. Outside from the previews, FK hasn't struck me as a continuity violator nearly as much as JP3 was which basically tried to reinvent the Raptors without explanation and even the Pteranodons. Marketing pegged it as evolution, but a simpler explanation already existed and was there so it has "precedence" in a way with the version numbers argument. Outside of that fans are basically more or less a complication to the continuity status of things due to how vocal the group is of whatever they are hoping to be achieved in the end.

I mean a lot of people are just dead set on eliminating something because it is new and different, but we need to realize that films (like all stories) need to have a way to reinvent themselves to stay relevant and keep people interested as well as coming back for more and more. Outside, if the particular thing in media flops creatively and critically the studio needs to do damage control with it and either work it out of the canon or just say it doesn't count. The fandom is too vehemently against certain ventures because of petty reasons at times though and often it is the vocal minority of them that are getting heard.

Take that vitriol for JPTG. As a game, yeah it is nothing but a mess of Quick Time Events and button presses that left people hoping to poke around and explore Nublar unfulfilled. Taking a step back and viewing JP:TG as it was you'll realize that as a story it is truly awesome and as authentic as you can get. You just have to enjoy it as a an interactive movie versus game and not a lot of people can/would/or will make that distinction because they can't get over that it was meant to be a game. So as such, Uni has basically motioned to it being "soft canon" where parts are and parts aren't. Now, outside of this I don't think something like TLW or JP3 are being treated like that, I'm just seeing the lack of mention that is as in-your face as someone saying "Oh. Yeah. That happened and wow." is not going to be their due out of relevance more than a need to mention it for the sake of mentioning.

I think Uni may eventually get a better handle on the franchise, but they do need to stay consistent with it and not necessarily become tone-deaf to the vocal minority that want wacky things, but actually hear everybody, get to know their brand intimately, and approach it in a way that allows them direct it in a meaningful way. I mean my main point here is that something like the "JP3 Spino being the JW Spino Skeleton on Main street" should not have happened at all. Not only is it anatomically inaccurate to the animal, but it is quote mining Trevorrow from an interview where he was making light of it getting smashed.