General Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom News Thread V.1

So hyped!

..and yeah, I don't see the need of Goldblum back neither. It's not necessary imo. Let's look at the (ancient) future.

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Mistral wrote:

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Why laugh? Wu cast is awesome bc he is underrated and a character that deserves development too. Malcolm and Grant already had their arc and development, they both have 2 movies where they are basically the MAIN characters and they are over loved already, so let's give another characters a chance please? 

The diference is that Wu actually has an important role and impact on the story while Grant and Malcolm are worthless for the story, admiting it or not, it's the truth,  they only matter to the fans that want to see them back just for the sake of it. I think some people still live in the past and think JP is just "Malcolm and Grant" and that these characters need to be in every fucking second on the movies or the movie will "suck". Why not just call it Jurassic Grant or Jurassic Malcolm? I hate how much fanservice stuff are overhyped and how the original trio is overhyped just bc we see the plot/history in their point of views while there is a LOT of interesting characters there too. This is just as ridiculous as people bashing CGI and wanting a movie with 100% animatronics. They can't acept things change.

Give Malcolm/Grant a break. Their time is over. Let's move on for new characters and the ones that deserve development and shine too. 

All this "but but but we need the original trio back or the movie will suck" thing makes me now want Grant and Malcolm 2847276188362 miles away from coming back.

Sorry, I had to rant over this.

I've said this in the past before, but just to reiterate: I would LOVE to see Grant come back in a supporting role, as the proverbial Dr Henry Jones Sr to the two main leads. With his experiences, and the fact that dinosaurs will eventually start to spread out across the island, I would imagine it would be very fascinating to see how they would play off of each other, especially if Grant's own safety and solitude becomes threatened by the proliferation of dinosaurs by other companies.

If I were to write in a Malcolm cameo, I would have him appear on television to give his usual two cents on the usual risks of messing with dinosaurs. In short, because of his lack of dinosaur knowledge, I don't see him being much help in another dinosaur encounter. Admittedly, I do prefer Grant (thanks largely to Sam Niell in the role), and I think having a paleontologist be the fish out of water in a rapidly transforming world as it's overrun by creatures that resemble the animals he studied would make for a great arc.

Grant wouldn't want to get involved with dinosaurs again after JP3, at least not with them alive. What I can acept is his name being mentioned and maybe an indirect help message to Claire and Owen, but bring him back? NO. He would just steal screentime and people would get blind over the movie. Same for Malcolm. I love him, but no, just mention him + his book or put him in a call with Claire/Owen so he can give advises but nothing more.



Ellie Sattler on the other hand...Another character that unfortunately lives under the shadow. You want a classic character to come back? Let's give Ellie a chance then.
Sarah Harding too, I would like to see her back, always loved her character.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Why laugh? Wu cast is awesome bc he is underrated and a character that deserves development too. Malcolm and Grant already had their arc and development, they both have 2 movies where they are basically the MAIN characters and they are over loved already, so let's give another characters a chance please? 

The diference is that Wu actually has an important role and impact on the story while Grant and Malcolm are worthless for the story, admiting it or not, it's the truth,  they only matter to the fans that want to see them back just for the sake of it. I think some people still live in the past and think JP is just "Malcolm and Grant" and that these characters need to be in every fucking second on the movies or the movie will "suck". Why not just call it Jurassic Grant or Jurassic Malcolm? I hate how much fanservice stuff are overhyped and how the original trio is overhyped just bc we see the plot/history in their point of views while there is a LOT of interesting characters there too. This is just as ridiculous as people bashing CGI and wanting a movie with 100% animatronics. They can't acept things change.

Give Malcolm/Grant a break. Their time is over. Let's move on for new characters and the ones that deserve development and shine too. 

All this "but but but we need the original trio back or the movie will suck" thing makes me now want Grant and Malcolm 2847276188362 miles away from coming back.

Sorry, I had to rant over this.

How is that the "truth"? Just because you personally define something as "truth" doesn't make it any more so.

It's just your opinion, just as mine are what they are and the persons next to us. Not the ultimate truths.

Now, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but I would strongly argue Wu really wouldn't be the god-like character of importance for the story arcs you seemingly claim him to be without the way he was re-written into JW. Characters, no matter how big or minor in the previous installments, can be evolved into something else by rewrites. Just as Wu was from JP to JW.

Also, please stop swearing.

Mistral wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Why laugh? Wu cast is awesome bc he is underrated and a character that deserves development too. Malcolm and Grant already had their arc and development, they both have 2 movies where they are basically the MAIN characters and they are over loved already, so let's give another characters a chance please? 

The diference is that Wu actually has an important role and impact on the story while Grant and Malcolm are worthless for the story, admiting it or not, it's the truth,  they only matter to the fans that want to see them back just for the sake of it. I think some people still live in the past and think JP is just "Malcolm and Grant" and that these characters need to be in every fucking second on the movies or the movie will "suck". Why not just call it Jurassic Grant or Jurassic Malcolm? I hate how much fanservice stuff are overhyped and how the original trio is overhyped just bc we see the plot/history in their point of views while there is a LOT of interesting characters there too. This is just as ridiculous as people bashing CGI and wanting a movie with 100% animatronics. They can't acept things change.

Give Malcolm/Grant a break. Their time is over. Let's move on for new characters and the ones that deserve development and shine too. 

All this "but but but we need the original trio back or the movie will suck" thing makes me now want Grant and Malcolm 2847276188362 miles away from coming back.

Sorry, I had to rant over this.

How is that the "truth"? Just because you personally define something as "truth" doesn't make it any more so.

It's just your opinion, just as mine are what they are and the persons next to us. Not the ultimate truths.

Now, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but I would strongly argue Wu really wouldn't be the god-like character of importance for the story arcs you seemingly claim him to be without the way he was re-written into JW. Characters, no matter how big or minor in the previous installments, can be evolved into something else by rewrites. Just as Wu was from JP to JW.

Also, please stop swearing.

Because Dr Wu is a scientist working for a company that engineers dinosaurs.

Malcolm is a guy who wrote a book and Grant is a paleontologist who has been chased by dinosaurs two times too many. Well both of them have. They aren't related to Ingen at all.

It makes way more sense for Wu to continue to be involved in a story and developed when the story is about these companies and the treatment of "the dinosaur industry " over all.

I would love to see other old characters back, but how could they possibly give them big roles without it feeling forced?

Wu may not be a God like figure in the story but atleast he has a place in where the story is heading in general.

Troyal1 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Why laugh? Wu cast is awesome bc he is underrated and a character that deserves development too. Malcolm and Grant already had their arc and development, they both have 2 movies where they are basically the MAIN characters and they are over loved already, so let's give another characters a chance please? 

The diference is that Wu actually has an important role and impact on the story while Grant and Malcolm are worthless for the story, admiting it or not, it's the truth,  they only matter to the fans that want to see them back just for the sake of it. I think some people still live in the past and think JP is just "Malcolm and Grant" and that these characters need to be in every fucking second on the movies or the movie will "suck". Why not just call it Jurassic Grant or Jurassic Malcolm? I hate how much fanservice stuff are overhyped and how the original trio is overhyped just bc we see the plot/history in their point of views while there is a LOT of interesting characters there too. This is just as ridiculous as people bashing CGI and wanting a movie with 100% animatronics. They can't acept things change.

Give Malcolm/Grant a break. Their time is over. Let's move on for new characters and the ones that deserve development and shine too. 

All this "but but but we need the original trio back or the movie will suck" thing makes me now want Grant and Malcolm 2847276188362 miles away from coming back.

Sorry, I had to rant over this.

How is that the "truth"? Just because you personally define something as "truth" doesn't make it any more so.

It's just your opinion, just as mine are what they are and the persons next to us. Not the ultimate truths.

Now, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but I would strongly argue Wu really wouldn't be the god-like character of importance for the story arcs you seemingly claim him to be without the way he was re-written into JW. Characters, no matter how big or minor in the previous installments, can be evolved into something else by rewrites. Just as Wu was from JP to JW.

Also, please stop swearing.

Because Dr Wu is a scientist working for a company that engineers dinosaurs.

Malcolm is a guy who wrote a book and Grant is a paleontologist who has been chased by dinosaurs two times too many. Well both of them have. They aren't related to Ingen at all.

It makes way more sense for Wu to continue to be involved in a story and developed when the story is about these companies and the treatment of "the dinosaur industry " over all.

I would love to see other old characters back, but how could they possibly give them big roles without it feeling forced?

Wu may not be a God like figure in the story but atleast he has a place in where the story is heading in general.

And why is InGen (/the replacement company) important to the story of the sequels? Because it's been written that way. It wouldn't have to be, Jurassic Park sequel does not require it, but that's how it has been constructed.

In nutshell, we are talking about causality here. What affects one thing affects the another. InGen was almost completely phased out in JP3 apart from the few references and callbacks, and if you have attempted putting Dr Wu there it would have made no sense without shifting focus into other things or without it feeling forced. But particularly with the new park plot again in JW and the same premises presumably continuing into JP5, he is suddenly "relevant again". Because of the circumstances of the plot's convenience.

Now, I think I've made my point clear in the past that I was not overly impressed by the way Malcolm & Grant were handled in TLW & JP3
https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t904-changed-characteristics-of-malcolm-grant
HOWEVER, having said that, I too blame that on lazy aspects of writing, not the mere presence of characters itself.

It's all in the writing. These characters could be made relevant again, just as was the case with Wu (even though I personally see his actions in JW convoluted), if you construct the premise and individual elements accordingly.

Mistral wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Why laugh? Wu cast is awesome bc he is underrated and a character that deserves development too. Malcolm and Grant already had their arc and development, they both have 2 movies where they are basically the MAIN characters and they are over loved already, so let's give another characters a chance please? 

The diference is that Wu actually has an important role and impact on the story while Grant and Malcolm are worthless for the story, admiting it or not, it's the truth,  they only matter to the fans that want to see them back just for the sake of it. I think some people still live in the past and think JP is just "Malcolm and Grant" and that these characters need to be in every fucking second on the movies or the movie will "suck". Why not just call it Jurassic Grant or Jurassic Malcolm? I hate how much fanservice stuff are overhyped and how the original trio is overhyped just bc we see the plot/history in their point of views while there is a LOT of interesting characters there too. This is just as ridiculous as people bashing CGI and wanting a movie with 100% animatronics. They can't acept things change.

Give Malcolm/Grant a break. Their time is over. Let's move on for new characters and the ones that deserve development and shine too. 

All this "but but but we need the original trio back or the movie will suck" thing makes me now want Grant and Malcolm 2847276188362 miles away from coming back.

Sorry, I had to rant over this.

How is that the "truth"? Just because you personally define something as "truth" doesn't make it any more so.

It's just your opinion, just as mine are what they are and the persons next to us. Not the ultimate truths.

Now, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but I would strongly argue Wu really wouldn't be the god-like character of importance for the story arcs you seemingly claim him to be without the way he was re-written into JW. Characters, no matter how big or minor in the previous installments, can be evolved into something else by rewrites. Just as Wu was from JP to JW.

Also, please stop swearing.

Because he's the one that created all the dinosaurs? The person that made all those cataclismic events to happen after Hammond? He's involved with InGen, he knows a lot about the company and what they were doing since the start, he's the one that, after being called by Hammond, created all the dinosaurs and the was the pionner of the de-extinction method, JP probably wouldn't exist or would take years to be made if it wasn't for a genius geneticist like Wu on  the head of the project. So he's a BIG part on making JP happening. He's the one that attracted Masrani's attention to buying InGen after making a hybrid plant (just check the Masrani site), so probably InGen would go bankrupt if Wu wasn't on the company anymore, he was the one that made Masrani grow an eye on the company, thus buying it AND starting the project of JW.

And in JW I don't even need to mention here, he created the crazy hybrid dinosaur that started a rampage on the park and closed it forever. And he just not only created Indominus rex but was also creating another hybrids inside there and all the JW "normal" dinosaurs too is his work. Owen's raptors were created by Wu, Owen wouldn't even be there if Wu wasn't there first. You can't deny Wu's importance now.


Now tell me how Grant and Malcolm were important for the movie canon in the past...20 years? Did they contributed in any way for the creation of JW? How their actions affected the whole history? Are they the ones that created I.rex, or any dinosaur there? Or are they directly involved with something very serious happening with InGen and possibly other company's intentions? How their moral rants over TV, books, etc have more impact on the story than someone that has a PHD in genetics and is working DIRECTLY with the research and clonning of dinosaurs? 

Putting Grant or Malcolm appearing in scenes just to rant moral stuff wouldn't contribute in ANYTHING for the plot than the person that is there creating more hybrids and so on, and wants to expand his research more and more. Malcolm is a math guy, how is he going to help aside from saying "Uh I hate to be right uh", people aren't going to act like "Oh this is Malcolm so maybe we should listen him".


I know it's hard to accept that someone that isn't loved/liked and has a small screentime like Wu is more important than your "childhood" heroes who appear a lot on the first movies, but well, that's how it is.

I really believe that the main reason why people what Dr. Grant back is because of he was put in such a mediocre movie that should have been much better then it should have been. Back on JPL, I remember reading that he was so discouraged that he got himself drunk. In many ways, it's not unlike how Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo got drunk when filming Super Mario Bros. At least THAT was a highly entertaining movie, even if it was for all the wrong reasons. Say what you want about Malcolm, but at least we finally saw more of him and, while it was a bit flawed. He really did shine enough that I don't mind if he doesn't come back.

While I personally want Sam Neill to come back, I really think that JP3 broke him so bad, that he doesn't what to come back.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Well, I DO want Malcolm and/or Grant in. And even if it would be 'fanservice', it's no less of a fan service than new parks, Nublar / island settings, learning not to fiddle with nature, saving the dinosaurs, animal rights, T-Rex heroic showups, billion references to the original film and so and so on, which most seem to be perfectly okay with for some reason. And if Dr Wu comeback is "awesome" but Malcolm would be "rehash", then frankly I have to laugh. Again, it's a matter of writing them in properly.

Why laugh? Wu cast is awesome bc he is underrated and a character that deserves development too. Malcolm and Grant already had their arc and development, they both have 2 movies where they are basically the MAIN characters and they are over loved already, so let's give another characters a chance please? 

The diference is that Wu actually has an important role and impact on the story while Grant and Malcolm are worthless for the story, admiting it or not, it's the truth,  they only matter to the fans that want to see them back just for the sake of it. I think some people still live in the past and think JP is just "Malcolm and Grant" and that these characters need to be in every fucking second on the movies or the movie will "suck". Why not just call it Jurassic Grant or Jurassic Malcolm? I hate how much fanservice stuff are overhyped and how the original trio is overhyped just bc we see the plot/history in their point of views while there is a LOT of interesting characters there too. This is just as ridiculous as people bashing CGI and wanting a movie with 100% animatronics. They can't acept things change.

Give Malcolm/Grant a break. Their time is over. Let's move on for new characters and the ones that deserve development and shine too. 

All this "but but but we need the original trio back or the movie will suck" thing makes me now want Grant and Malcolm 2847276188362 miles away from coming back.

Sorry, I had to rant over this.

How is that the "truth"? Just because you personally define something as "truth" doesn't make it any more so.

It's just your opinion, just as mine are what they are and the persons next to us. Not the ultimate truths.

Now, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but I would strongly argue Wu really wouldn't be the god-like character of importance for the story arcs you seemingly claim him to be without the way he was re-written into JW. Characters, no matter how big or minor in the previous installments, can be evolved into something else by rewrites. Just as Wu was from JP to JW.

Also, please stop swearing.

Because he's the one that created all the dinosaurs? The person that made all those cataclismic events to happen after Hammond? He's involved with InGen, he knows a lot about the company and what they were doing since the start, he's the one that, after being called by Hammond, created all the dinosaurs and the was the pionner of the de-extinction method, JP probably wouldn't exist or would take years to be made if it wasn't for a genius geneticist like Wu on  the head of the project. So he's a BIG part on making JP happening. He's the one that attracted Masrani's attention to buying InGen after making a hybrid plant (just check the Masrani site), so probably InGen would go bankrupt if Wu wasn't on the company anymore, he was the one that made Masrani grow an eye on the company, thus buying it AND starting the project of JW.

And in JW I don't even need to mention here, he created the crazy hybrid dinosaur that started a rampage on the park and closed it forever. And he just not only created Indominus rex but was also creating another hybrids inside there and all the JW "normal" dinosaurs too is his work. Owen's raptors were created by Wu, Owen wouldn't even be there if Wu wasn't there first. You can't deny Wu's importance now.


Now tell me how Grant and Malcolm were important for the movie canon in the past...20 years? Did they contributed in any way for the creation of JW? How their actions affected the whole history? Are they the ones that created I.rex, or any dinosaur there? Or are they directly involved with something very serious happening with InGen and possibly other company's intentions? How their moral rants over TV, books, etc have more impact on the story than someone that has a PHD in genetics and is working DIRECTLY with the research and clonning of dinosaurs? 

Putting Grant or Malcolm appearing in scenes just to rant moral stuff wouldn't contribute in ANYTHING for the plot than the person that is there creating more hybrids and so on, and wants to expand his research more and more. Malcolm is a math guy, how is he going to help aside from saying "Uh I hate to be right uh", people aren't going to act like "Oh this is Malcolm so maybe we should listen him".

I know it's hard to accept that someone that isn't loved/liked and has a small screentime like Wu is more important than your "childhood" heroes who appear a lot on the first movies, but well, that's how it is.

You still seem to fail to get what is being talked about here. None of what you are saying about Wu actually is factually known in Jurassic Park 1993 (except that he played X role in there at lab and was involved with the lysine contingency), or in TLW or JP3 for that matter. Originally. If Jurassic World had never been written as the new park soft reboot and we would have gotten traditional sequel, it is highly probably Wu never would have been touched again. And thus, his role would have forever remained as "some scientist in Jurassic Park". His pivotal role in building the first park was only canonized in 2015.

Yes, now with the established JW lore in mind he is indeed more important to the franchise as well as in retrospect to Jurassic Park as well, but that is only because he was written that way as the plot conveniently needed him. Just as other old characters could be rewritten into JP5/JP6, if they tried and the premises of the films were in line with it. If it is possible with Wu, then it is with Malcolm or Grant or whoever.

In fact, in answer to your point of Malcolm & Grant not being strictly tied to established premises of the franchise (like Wu is to "Dinosaur making companies" and "Dinosaur parks" and "Dinosaur genetics science" now), I would argue that if properly executed, those guys could even have easier time getting integrated into these films now. They are not as heavily linked into very much rehashed old plot lines now, at least not if the premises are something else than the old island dinosaur escape things again. Which they probably sadly will be, admittedly, but they wouldn't have to be by law.

The "childhood" line of yours at the end, I'm sorry is highly offensive.

@Mistral

But even if we pretend that there was only one JP movie let's say. Only the first one. Dr Wu would still be a more important character pertaining to the science and working in the park. Even a random scientist employee is still an employee nonetheless. Unlike Grant and Malcolm who are only caught up in a bad situation.

And now we do have a narrative that is focusing on the dev of dinosaurs and establishing DR Wu as important.

And then in the sequels they both get caught up in bad situations again. I guess let me ask you this. What kind of plot would you envision where Grant Or Malcolm would have a good reason to come back as leads? I'm genuinely curious because i love those characters but i absolutely can't think of a story

I didn't mean to offend you by saying "childhood" btw "". It's just the truth, lots of JP fans have Grant, Malcolm and Ellie as their childhood heroes, it's not offensive to say that and I didn't mean to offend anyone with this.

Troyal1 wrote:

@Mistral

But even if we pretend that there was only one JP movie let's say. Only the first one. Dr Wu would still be a more important character pertaining to the science and working in the park. Even a random scientist employee is still an employee nonetheless. Unlike Grant and Malcolm who are only caught up in a bad situation.  

And now we do have a narrative that is focusing on the dev of dinosaurs and establishing DR Wu as important.

And then in the sequels they both get caught up in bad situations again. I guess let me ask you this.  What kind of plot would you envision where Grant Or Malcolm would have a good reason to come back as leads? I'm genuinely curious because i love those characters but i absolutely can't think of a story  

TBH, I can't really think of a story either that doesn't feel extremely forced. Maybe have Malcolm in a 1 minute cameo on a tv show that Owen is watching. He gives his opinion on why Jurassic World failed.

The end.

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

YES

Troyal1 wrote:

@Mistral

But even if we pretend that there was only one JP movie let's say. Only the first one. Dr Wu would still be a more important character pertaining to the science and working in the park. Even a random scientist employee is still an employee nonetheless. Unlike Grant and Malcolm who are only caught up in a bad situation.  

And now we do have a narrative that is focusing on the dev of dinosaurs and establishing DR Wu as important.

And then in the sequels they both get caught up in bad situations again. I guess let me ask you this.  What kind of plot would you envision where Grant Or Malcolm would have a good reason to come back as leads? I'm genuinely curious because i love those characters but i absolutely can't think of a story  

Dr Wu's presence in JP5 is natural and not forced if/when they continue with the aftermath of JW plot lines, or even focusing on the science in general, but again that is because of the way the previous film was written.

As for Malcolm and/or Grant. I'm not a screenwriter and don't pretend to be. But the very basic premise that likely would be the most natural is

1)
They would continue to live their everyday lives on mainland, whether that is in US or elsewhere that makes sense for the flow of the plot. They wouldn't come to the dinosaurs. Rather the dinosaurs (or the implications they present) would come to them. And not in the "cheated way" as in TLW and JP3 where they are basically lured back against their wishes by convoluted means, but that they stay where they are but are still drawn to the situation. But as that sort of plot line would require (finally) abandoning the old premises of islands, parks and the old rhetoric, it is highly unlikely.

2)
Malcolm and/or Grant are either invited or forcefully requested in advisory role to be part of civilian or government board in city X to to either discuss
A) The to-be-decided fate of the InGen/Masrani dinosaurs
B) Relevant crisis X that is taking place somewhere
C) Suing InGen/Masrani, perhaps testify against them due to their past involvements (which could be expanded through widened backgrounds just like in Wu's case).

Now of course that second one would only be the general starting premise of their involvement and where it lead from there can take many forms, but we were discussing ways of bringing them in right, not entire courses of the film. Alternatively, they are not the leads, but in supporting roles you switch focus from time to time to.

As for brief cameos, while preferably I would have something along the lines of above, I'm not against them. Again, if done properly. After all, no-one seems to complain about Lex and Tim in TLW - because the way they were utilized made actual sense. Now, the often presented "Malcolm debating/discussing on TV" would suffice very nicely, or perhaps Malcolm and/or Grant attending summit or conference etc and briefly discussing with the protagonists about something relevant to the rest of the story line. Or even this: (fourth post) https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t933-how-should-the-franchise-end

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

We might get Malcolm, but as I said before, Grant isn't ever coming back.

Also, I'd just like to add that there are usually multiple narratives going on throughout a single film, many of which have nothing to do with the overall lore of the franchise.

It's hardly debatable that Wu is significantly more important to the "bringing dinosaurs back to life" aspect of the JP franchise than any other character outside of Hammond, but that doesn't mean he's one of the most significant characters towards the other narratives going on.

For example, Wu isn't relevant to Grant's apprehension towards children in the first film, just as the character of Grant isn't relevant towards the creation of the park.

The point is that, in any film, there are multiple narrative threads for us, as viewers, to follow, and it's up to us to figure out which of them is the most significant to us. Who's to say which character is more "important" to the franchise?

At the end of the day, it's all subjective. To some people, Jurassic Park was about a dinosaur theme park. To others, it was about Grant's journey through this dinosaur amusement park. Neither is right or wrong.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

We might get Malcolm, but as I said before, Grant isn't ever coming back.

We don't know that. First, he can be rewritten back in if they actually tried/wanted, as I've already said. And as for what you said him about being depressed about the JP3 experience and burning out, is there actual direct quotes of that somewhere, or is that urban legend memories?

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Also, I'd just like to add that there are usually multiple narratives going on throughout a single film, many of which have nothing to do with the overall lore of the franchise.

It's hardly debatable that Wu is significantly more important to the "bringing dinosaurs back to life" aspect of the JP franchise than any other character outside of Hammond, but that doesn't mean he's one of the most significant characters towards the other narratives going on.

For example, Wu isn't relevant to Grant's apprehension towards children in the first film, just as the character of Grant isn't relevant towards the creation of the park.

The point is that, in any film, there are multiple narrative threads for us, as viewers, to follow, and it's up to us to figure out which of them is the most significant to us. Who's to say which character is more "important" to the franchise?

At the end of the day, it's all subjective. To some people, Jurassic Park was about a dinosaur theme park. To others, it was about Grant's journey through this dinosaur amusement park. Neither is right or wrong.

I wish I could upvote this and your previous post more than once.

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

We might get Malcolm, but as I said before, Grant isn't ever coming back.

We don't know that. First, he can be rewritten back in if they actually tried/wanted, as I've already said. And as for what you said him about being depressed about the JP3 experience and burning out, is there actual direct quotes of that somewhere, or is that urban legend memories?

Back when JPL was active, one of the moderators said that Neill was getting drunk off-set. You won't find that online, but that's most likely since disgruntled workers didn't have the power to blow up movies online at that time like they do now. (Like that one Sony employee stantz1984 on Reddit did with GB2016.)

@Mistral

I'll admit number 1 sounds like a cool idea. But I can't help but feel those characters would still want nothing to do with a dinosaur plot. Like if there were Dino's on the mainland I can't see a meaningful story behind that where it would be a worthwhile JP movie. If I were Dr Grant I'd probably have PTSD and wouldn't even dig up Dino bones anymore lol.

But then I suppose that would have to challenge the idea of a "traditional" JP film, since all the films ultimately revolve around our protagonists being chased by dangerous animals. And the worn out island/park trope like you said. But I can't see the studio wanting to make an extremely different type of JP film.

I have said this and I'll continue to say it. I wish JP was doing what Star Wars is doing. Having their traditional main line films but also having smaller and more unconventional Jurassic Park spin off films. AKA not a movie revolving around Dino chases.

Sorry that I'm rambling but those are my thoughts.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

We might get Malcolm, but as I said before, Grant isn't ever coming back.

We don't know that. First, he can be rewritten back in if they actually tried/wanted, as I've already said. And as for what you said him about being depressed about the JP3 experience and burning out, is there actual direct quotes of that somewhere, or is that urban legend memories?

Back when JPL was active, one of the moderators said that Neill was getting drunk off-set. You won't find that online, but that's most likely since disgruntled workers didn't have the power to blow up movies online at that time like they do now. (Like that one Sony employee stantz1984 on Reddit did with GB2016.)

So that's a very unreliable, untrustworthy source then.

And even if he actually was getting drunk, it may have had nothing to do with the film (yes we know about the thousand rewrites and background issues with the production) but personal issues or whatever he was going through at the time. Drawing parallels to what other actors have done in other films isn't proving anything either

Troyal1 wrote:

@Mistral

I'll admit number 1 sounds like a cool idea. But I can't help but feel those characters would still want nothing to do with a dinosaur plot. Like if there were Dino's on the mainland I can't see a meaningful story behind that where it would be a worthwhile JP movie. If I were Dr Grant I'd probably have PTSD and wouldn't even dig up Dino bones anymore lol.

But then I suppose that would have to challenge the idea of a "traditional" JP film, since all the films ultimately revolve around our protagonists being chased by dangerous animals. And the worn out island/park trope like you said.  But I can't see the studio wanting to make an extremely different type of JP film.

I have said this and I'll continue to say it. I wish JP was doing what Star Wars is doing. Having their traditional main line films but also having smaller and more unconventional  Jurassic Park spin off films. AKA not a movie revolving around Dino chases.

Sorry that I'm rambling but those are my thoughts.

It's just a matter of writing, everything can be resolved through proper writing

I personally actually despise the Star Wars spinoff ideas and see them as nothing but cash crabs - particularly when you get nothing but unneeded fanservice from film like in Rogue One (and yes I'm expecting yet another downvote for saying this, but at this point do I really care of my 'reputation' here anymore?). If you want to have "unconventional" things and can't enforce them in actual film sequels for the reasons of it being too risky, then one would be better off to deal such things in TV series. But that's just me.

Oh and Mistral I like your idea to end the series. I think we would both prefer cynical and more realistic endings. I remember suggesting something similar a few years back on another forum and immediately getting shot down lol. I remember the majority of the fans saying they wanted an ending with humans living alongside dinosaurs.

Which to me is way too optimistic and I'd find it a bit cheesy. Not saying they're wrong or anything but I def think me and you have atleast one thing in common as far as what we want from this franchise.

Troyal1 wrote:

Oh and Mistral I like your idea to end the series. I think we would both prefer cynical and more realistic endings.  I remember suggesting something similar a few years back on another forum and immediately getting shot down lol. I remember the majority of the fans saying they wanted an ending with humans living alongside dinosaurs.

Which to me is way too optimistic and I'd find it a bit cheesy. Not saying they're wrong or anything but I def think me and you have atleast one thing in common as far as what we want from this franchise.

Cool  

Oh and did they want something like this?  

(Parody of Dino Riders and JP)

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

We might get Malcolm, but as I said before, Grant isn't ever coming back.

What was the reason for Sam Neil getting so down on it after 3? Do you have sources? Not saying I don't believe you but I wanna know what could be that bad.

I know 3 isn't well liked but it's not like it ruined his career.

Edit: just saw your source post. But my question stands. Why?


Edit: and @mistral I don't think any studio would want to push a mainline JP movie that is risky or unconventional. They have always been been big budget block busters. That's why I have always liked the idea of "spin off" JP movies that are maybe smaller in scale, and lower in budget. They could take way more risks that way.

Cause nobody is going to put 260 million behind a JP movie where dino chase scenes aren't a big focus. Atleast I doubt it

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Also, I'd just like to add that there are usually multiple narratives going on throughout a single film, many of which have nothing to do with the overall lore of the franchise.

It's hardly debatable that Wu is significantly more important to the "bringing dinosaurs back to life" aspect of the JP franchise than any other character outside of Hammond, but that doesn't mean he's one of the most significant characters towards the other narratives going on.

For example, Wu isn't relevant to Grant's apprehension towards children in the first film, just as the character of Grant isn't relevant towards the creation of the park.

The point is that, in any film, there are multiple narrative threads for us, as viewers, to follow, and it's up to us to figure out which of them is the most significant to us. Who's to say which character is more "important" to the franchise?

At the end of the day, it's all subjective. To some people, Jurassic Park was about a dinosaur theme park. To others, it was about Grant's journey through this dinosaur amusement park. Neither is right or wrong.

Oh okay. I agree with this. I am sorry for this. Damn I'm a mess those days. That's what study + not sleeping does to you.

Troyal1 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

If we're talking about which character, between Wu and Grant/Malcolm is more important to the narrative as it currently sits, then the answer is obviously Wu.

However, we're all still largely unaware of where the current narrative will take us. Storylines can change. They can swerve off and veer in different directions. Nothing is set in stone. Just because Grant and Malcolm aren't significant to the narrative as it sits right now, that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay that way. It all depends on how it's written.

If there is a place for Grant and/or Malcolm in a future JP film, then I'm all for it.

We might get Malcolm, but as I said before, Grant isn't ever coming back.

What was the reason for Sam Neil getting so down on it after 3? Do you have sources? Not saying I don't believe you but I wanna know what could be that bad.

I know 3 isn't well liked but it's not like it ruined his career.

Edit: just saw your source post. But my question stands. Why?


Edit: and @mistral I don't think any studio would want to push a mainline JP movie that is risky or unconventional. They have always been been big budget block busters. That's why I have always liked the idea of "spin off" JP movies that are maybe smaller in scale, and lower in budget. They could take way more risks that way.

Cause nobody is going to put 260 million behind a JP movie where dino chase scenes aren't a big focus. Atleast I doubt it

I think it's because he felt betrayed that he thought he'd get to be in a movie that still had some of the magic of the first one via Jeff Goldblum in 'The Lost World'. Given how JP3 had none of that...well, it no wonder why he got all depressed.

Troyal1 wrote:

Oh and Mistral I like your idea to end the series. I think we would both prefer cynical and more realistic endings. I remember suggesting something similar a few years back on another forum and immediately getting shot down lol. I remember the majority of the fans saying they wanted an ending with humans living alongside dinosaurs.

Which to me is way too optimistic and I'd find it a bit cheesy. Not saying they're wrong or anything but I def think me and you have atleast one thing in common as far as what we want from this franchise.

As for this, I think the main problem with this ending is that it wouldn't work. Let's face it, with the news bombarding us with so bad news, the political area tearing people apart making common ground impossible, and everything else going on, do we really need a grim cynical ending? You'd have too many people feeling like everything about the movie franchise was pointless and having themselves ask "What was the use of resurrecting dinosaurs anyway?"

In other words, do we really need a movie ending showing us how much mankind sucks with so much of that in the world already?

Well I hope he comes back atleast for a little. I love JP3, but I feel like even those who don't, didn't  dislike it because of him.

Troyal1 wrote:

Well I hope he comes back atleast for a little. I love JP3, but I feel like even those who don't, didn't  dislike it because of him.

If he wasn't in it, then it would have barely made even at best. Even bombing/flopping isn't out of the question if he wasn't in it.

I think Malcolm being the "voice" of Crichton, he plays an important part in the universe. Yes I know he has passed away, but I still think what he was getting at is important.. What would you guys think of a similar new character?