Dinosaur Protection Group

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

So, once again the site is soft canon at best?

Looks like it. Trevorrow said it's made by fans and they are like people he consult to make everything fit canon.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

So, once again the site is soft canon at best?

Looks like it. Trevorrow said it's made by fans and they are like people he consult to make everything fit canon.

I think it's hard canon. George R.R. Martin (writer of A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones) consults and ask for fans to write some encyclopedias and they're canon. I think it's the same thing here.

brunofernando wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

So, once again the site is soft canon at best?

Looks like it. Trevorrow said it's made by fans and they are like people he consult to make everything fit canon.

I think it's hard canon. George R.R. Martin (writer of A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones) consults and ask for fans to write some encyclopedias and they're canon. I think it's the same thing here.

Then shouldn't at least some of it be talked about in the movie or in a book that is designated canon? I'm sorry, but as I said before, this is just a lazy way to ensure that the Sorna movies are still canon. If you are accepting this as canon, then you are ensuring that Universal can do whatever it wants with the canon, and thus, being an accomplice in damaging the franchise. I'm all for more JP stuff, but this is taking it too far. If anything, it's fandom disguised as canon.

Come on people. We CAN, if not SHOULD, do better then accept this as hard canon.

I think if Trevorrow and/or Spielberg officially sound off on it (ie- a Tweet saying, "X is canon, but Y isn't.") it should be hard canon. Otherwise, take it with a pinch of salt. Not grain, pinch.

Wait, I have a few questions...

So the dinosaurs species in red are the ones that went extinct are in red right?

But this is only the dinosaur species that lived on Nublar, not the ones living on Sorna right?

So in other words Spinos were a part of Jurassic World on nublar but died but this does not rule out that Spinos do still live on Sorna? Or all of the other species on Sorna.

I just hope they explain very clearly the status of Isla Sorna and not just pretend it is not important...

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

Wait, I have a few questions...

So the dinosaurs species in red are the ones that went extinct are in red right?

But this is only the dinosaur species that lived on Nublar, not the ones living on Sorna right?

So in other words Spinos were a part of Jurassic World on nublar but died but this does not rule out that Spinos do still live on Sorna? Or all of the other species on Sorna.

I just hope they explain very clearly the status of Isla Sorna and not just pretend it is not important...

Sorry dude. your not getting that rematch. Spino, create, anything in red plus metro and indominus are extinct.

It said pretty clearly they took dinos from Sorna to Nublar but didnt say if it was decimated...BUT the site also mentions the volcano as threatening the 'last remaining dinosaurs'.

Also the only fight you're going to get is Indo and Blue, and thats seen in the trailer.

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

Wait, I have a few questions...

So the dinosaurs species in red are the ones that went extinct are in red right?

But this is only the dinosaur species that lived on Nublar, not the ones living on Sorna right?

So in other words Spinos were a part of Jurassic World on nublar but died but this does not rule out that Spinos do still live on Sorna? Or all of the other species on Sorna.

I just hope they explain very clearly the status of Isla Sorna and not just pretend it is not important...

Red is presumed to either mean critically endangered or extinct.

Unknown. The site implies that both Sorna and Nublar have faced irreparable damage to both ecosystems due to Masrani's InGen buy out and construction of Jurassic World. DPG's focus though is on Nublar and transferring the animals off. I suspect more will be revealed in time as we progress closer to the launch of the film. This does show that Masrani effectively ignored Hammond's wishes at the end of TLW of everybody ignoring Sorna on that note I'd think.

Masrani Backdoor seems to imply Spino was an experiment that was abandoned and left for dead by Wu supposedly. It's not by name mentioned, but it is presumed to be the Spinosaurus given how the thing referred is singular, and presumably there is only one Spinosaurus cloned that we know of right now. Though, interesting, if there was only one Spinosaurus that might explain why the thing is so psychotic and homicidal because with only having to fend for itself it would drive anyone or anything to the point of that rage.

Outside of this, the Spino Skeleton in JW is implied by the social media accounts to be the Spinosaurus from JP3 despite the problems with the anatomy. We can debunk it by merely looking at the differences of anatomy here, but to the average person they'd eat that info up (in-universe) I would presume if they knew anything about it. Right now I'd only label it as a rumor or something they (Masrani/InGen) tells people so they don't think the Spinosaurus is still alive and fools them into a sense of security. The DPG site would imply though now that it is no longer present in any way on Nublar and possibly Sorna due to Masrani ferrying dinosaurs between both islands, which the site also implies.

So:


It's time to drop it and move on with your life.

I just think that whenever you believe if this is canon or not, then they way it acknowledges the Sorna movies just comes across as a slap in the face to the fans. Even more so people who like TLW.

I don't know which is worse: Universal making all these sites as canon, how the sites acknowledge them as such and, IF you believe them, implies that Sorna population is ruined, or that fans take this as canon and basically allow Universal to get away with being lazy and doing whatever they want with this franchise.

Rhedo, you're sounding as jaded as I was until my all-points nowhere excursion and subsequent break. Unfortunately interaction with fandoms online promotes this mindset. The exact opposite of what it should promote coincidentally.

TyrannosaurTJ wrote:

Rhedo, you're sounding as jaded as I was until my all-points nowhere excursion and subsequent break. Unfortunately interaction with fandoms online promotes this mindset. The exact opposite of what it should promote coincidentally.

It's just between finding out that J.A. Bayona was largely wasted for this movie, how little Universal has cared about this franchise after The Lost World, how they don't care about the canon, and everything else.

You know, I'm just going to say it, right here right now. I was mainly going to see this movie to give Bayona a fair chance, but after I found out that he was mostly wasted, that was the crippling blow for me. Like getting punched in the gut by Godzilla. The chances of me seeing this movie is 20%. In other words, it's possible, but not likely. I guess at this point, I'm only posting here in the franchise part in order to find SOMETHING that can convince me otherwise.

The big picture here is that they have "changed" the canon so much and so often that fans are not even sure what to believe or what to take seriously.

First in 2015 the Masrani Website tells us that Spinosaurus is among the Species in Jurassic World.

Then the Jurassic World script says the skeleton Rexy smashes is a fake Spino skeleton.

Then in 2017 the Jurassic World Instagram account tells us that the Spinosaurus skeleton that Rexy smashes in Jurassic World is indeed the Spinosaurus from Jurassic Park 3 (Even though it has a very different crest).

Then that tie in website says Dr. Wu left an experiment on Sorna but never mentions anything by name, this has led some to somewhat believe it is the Jurassic Park 3 Spinosaurus (But if so, why not name ot straight up?).

And now in 2018 another website implies that the Spinosaurus species is about to be extinct on Nublar while not mentioning anything about the population on Sorna...

They have flip flopped so much it is clear Universal is just telling different people to make stuff up as they go along and the result is a very ambiguous and unclear canon that makes no sense and has way tooany holes in it.

Things do not just add up, this is way too big of a mess for us the fans to just be ok with it and pretend it is not there.

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

The big picture here is that they have "changed" the canon so much and so often that fans are not even sure what to believe or what to take seriously.

First in 2015 the Masrani Website tells us that Spinosaurus is among the Species in Jurassic World.

Then the Jurassic World script says the skeleton Rexy smashes is a fake Spino skeleton.

Then in 2017 the Jurassic World Instagram account tells us that the Spinosaurus skeleton that Rexy smashes in Jurassic World is indeed the Spinosaurus from Jurassic Park 3 (Even though it has a very different crest).

Then that tie in website says Dr. Wu left an experiment on Sorna but never mentions anything by name, this has led some to somewhat believe it is the Jurassic Park 3 Spinosaurus (But if so, why not name ot straight up?).

And now in 2018 another website implies that the Spinosaurus species is about to be extinct on Nublar while not mentioning anything about the population on Sorna...

They have flip flopped so much it is clear Universal is just telling different people to make stuff up as they go along and the result is a very ambiguous and unclear canon that makes no sense and has way tooany holes in it.

Things do not just add up, this is way too big of a mess for us the fans to just be ok with it and pretend it is not there.

Sorry, but I think you know the answer on this one. Universal is trying to mess with Spino to please some fans.

It could be but I doubt it since almost everything Universal has done since 2015 tells us that they do believe the myth that nobody cares for The Lost World or Jurassic Park 3 and people only love the first one.

Colin seems to be the only one somewhat aware that the Spino is unpopular. Everything I have seen from anyone else at Universal is that they are not aware of how infamous the Spinosaurus is. That's why I don't think everyone at Universal is trying to make it look bad.

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

It could be but I doubt it since almost everything Universal has done since 2015 tells us that they do believe the myth that nobody cares for The Lost World or Jurassic Park 3 and people only love the first one.

Colin seems to be the only one somewhat aware that the Spino is unpopular. Everything I have seen from anyone else at Universal is that they are not aware of how infamous the Spinosaurus is. That's why I don't think everyone at Universal is trying to make it look bad.

Universal is well aware that Spino is hated. That's why they are buying the anti-Spino propaganda. They are trying to delete it from everything. They already changed JP3 logo to T.rex. Next they'll probably say JP3 isn't canon anymore.

They already tried to say JP3 Spino is the skeleton one we see on Main Street and now, they contract some fans (I still want to know who) and what they do? Make Spino extinct.

I even wonder if I'll get any Spino toy from Mattel...

Nah, don’t forget that spinosaurus was supposed to be in Fallen Kingdom and that we may receive a big Spino toy eventually from Mattel according to the toy leaker.

But if Universal is trying to hide the Spino at all cost as part of an anti Spino propaganda...

Then why is it still featured on almost all post JP3 toylines and videogames?

I know they changed the logo of the JP3 DVD cover but it is still a very prominent dinosaur on everything else Jurassic. However, the different tie in websites and social media accounts have no idea what they are doing with it.

See what I am saying? Something just does not add up...Sometimes it appears Universal somewhat lnows about it but many more times it appears like they are not aware of anything.

I will admit I’m disappointed with the handling of Sorna.

mosasaurus wrote:

Nah, don’t forget that spinosaurus was supposed to be in Fallen Kingdom and that we may receive a big Spino toy eventually from Mattel according to the toy leaker.

Just because Spino was in a toy leak doesn't necessarily mean it was in the movie. It was never confirmed nor rumored to be in the movie either.

Gotta agree with Dead on this one. Let me just point out a few toys that didn't appear in the films:

- Coelophysis
- Dimetrodon
- Chasmosaurus
- Tapejara

And I'm only listing the ones from first/initial waves, and excluding dinosaurs we eventually did get (example— the original JP Stegosaur toy). Plus we got a Dilo toy for JP3, but didn't see or hear from it once, and same goes for the JW Ceratosaur.

I think this thread is getting sidetracked, focusing only on the Spinosaurus. If you guys want to speculate/what-if/discuss/argue about that, maybe do it somewhere else. Forgive me if I sound condescending or rude, but this thread is supposed to be about the Dinosaur Protection Group, not a base-breaking character/dinosaur.

TBH I am looking at the conflicting information as rumors or misinformation put out there as rumors "in-universe" by Masrani and InGen workers here. As well as people roaming around the islands. It is likely that Uni, as an effort to keep people interested, are just spinning their wheels with this until they find out how they want to nail it all down.

Unfortunately because of how impromptu the whole deal is and how inspecific it is right now we're getting frustrated because we've seen how something like the MCU and Star Wars has made the effort to nail things down and stay mostly cohesive altogether. Uni isn't following suit with JP and fans are upset, but fans are going to be upset when their vaunted head canons  end up not being true or someone making a joke of it because of how ludicrous it is. So things like Raptor stowaways on the Venture in TLW or TLW infant being the JP3 Rex being dropped even though they weren't supported either way. The Raptors are ruled out because of in-dialogue in the film itself between Malcolm and an InGen Dock Worker and the other matter, while possible, isn't confirmed or denied either way it just is as likely as it is unlikely. It's even more unlikely because the infant from TLW would not have grown that much. So here is a lesson to be learned here is that, a lot of fans will get on the bandwagon of cool ideas or what they think would be cool with their head canons and run with them to the point they make them "true" in their head even though there's no official word. Therein lies the problem because while sometimes they get what they want, it isn't a flat out constant guarantee that it will. That's why we have the mixed reception of things like The Last Jedi because people had a particular way they wanted to see things turn out in SW because of Legends and when it didn't remain the same they got mad because they weren't open to other interpretations or other ideas.

Part of my frustration with JP is there with those who are tired of the convoluted and contradictory stuff. A lot of stuff is relatively soft-canon now in retrospect. Things like JPTG moved from being an "in-canon" game for all intents and purposes with Telltale and Uni that is now soft-canon. Things like this happen, but the Jurassic series is so disjointed and hodge podge from the original source material that this is more prevalent and I feel constant. Too many people want their ideas involved or heard and there is no check and balance for it whatsoever. At the same time I am looking forward to see the decisions that are made with this new trilogy and the changes they usher in as long as there being more information to comb over. Hopefully Uni can work out the contradictions and get more cohesive altogether in the near future.

To be perfectly honest, the very existence of Isla Sorna is an incredibly egregious plot contrivance. It's ultimately confusing to the majority of the film-going public that largely only cares about the original film.

Maybe most importantly, if there is another island full of dinosaurs, the stakes for the animals on Isla Nublar are significantly lower. So the T-Rex dies.....there is a family of them on Sorna. So Blue dies....there are more raptors on Sorna. You get the idea.

If the 6th film follows the plot that we all think it will, then the future of the animals on Nublar is every bit as important as the last extinction of the dinosaurs. Maybe the filmmakers are smarter than a lot of us think.

NolaJP wrote:

To be perfectly honest, the very existence of Isla Sorna is an incredibly egregious plot contrivance.  It's ultimately confusing to the majority of the film-going public that largely only cares about the original film.

Maybe most importantly, if there is another island full of dinosaurs, the stakes for the animals on Isla Nublar are significantly lower.  So the T-Rex dies.....there is a family of them on Sorna.  So Blue dies....there are more raptors on Sorna.  You get the idea.  

If the 6th film follows the plot that we all think it will, then the future of the animals on Nublar is every bit as important as the last extinction of the dinosaurs.  Maybe the filmmakers are smarter than a lot of us think.

I agree. That's why I've always said that having two islands in the same movie wasn't a good idea.

Sobek wrote:

NolaJP wrote:

To be perfectly honest, the very existence of Isla Sorna is an incredibly egregious plot contrivance.  It's ultimately confusing to the majority of the film-going public that largely only cares about the original film.

Maybe most importantly, if there is another island full of dinosaurs, the stakes for the animals on Isla Nublar are significantly lower.  So the T-Rex dies.....there is a family of them on Sorna.  So Blue dies....there are more raptors on Sorna.  You get the idea.  

If the 6th film follows the plot that we all think it will, then the future of the animals on Nublar is every bit as important as the last extinction of the dinosaurs.  Maybe the filmmakers are smarter than a lot of us think.

I agree. That's why I've always said that having two islands in the same movie wasn't a good idea.

From a film narrative standpoint, it's hard to argue with the assessment that the existence of a Site B was a huge convenience and distraction from Isla Nublar, the latter of which seemed to have been abandoned but not destroyed. But had to be written in because Crichton had Nublar destroyed at the end of the first novel and there would be no way of bringing it back for a sequel. The way he writes it, by presenting it as the factory floor and showing us the decayed labs where the real work was done for the genesis of Jurassic Park, is engaging but is only cursorily touched on in TLW and JP3. Me personally, I just accepted it as a kid that Isla Sorna was the factory floor and Isla Nublar was tourist attraction.

I believe there is an opportunity to bring Sorna into Fallen Kingdom organically as it and the other islands of Las Cinco Muertes would be the planned refuge for the Isla Nublar dinosaurs to be transported to, without any need to elaborate further. I doubt Claire would consider taking them to the mainland a serious proposition, and that she and her team are double crossed, transitioning us into the Lockwood Manor half of the film. At the end of the day, they are still living dinosaurs and if the DPG is meant to be any indication there are still many people in the film universe who don't want to see them wiped out. (Not trying to start an argument on the validity of canon that the DPG website presents, at least not here, just putting my two cents out there).

The whole problem of the whole " take them to Sorna" scenario is:

-> They're saving the Nublar dinos from extinction, only to super-populate Sorna when they're all dumped there? They will save them from extinction only to cause another?

It doesn't make that much sense tbh.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

brunofernando wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

So, once again the site is soft canon at best?

Looks like it. Trevorrow said it's made by fans and they are like people he consult to make everything fit canon.

I think it's hard canon. George R.R. Martin (writer of A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones) consults and ask for fans to write some encyclopedias and they're canon. I think it's the same thing here.

Then shouldn't at least some of it be talked about in the movie or in a book that is designated canon? I'm sorry, but as I said before, this is just a lazy way to ensure that the Sorna movies are still canon. If you are accepting this as canon, then you are ensuring that Universal can do whatever it wants with the canon, and thus, being an accomplice in damaging the franchise. I'm all for more JP stuff, but this is taking it too far. If anything, it's fandom disguised as canon.

Come on people. We CAN, if not SHOULD, do better then accept this as hard canon.

How is canon on a webpage or a book any different? You're overreacting.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

TyrannosaurTJ wrote:

Rhedo, you're sounding as jaded as I was until my all-points nowhere excursion and subsequent break. Unfortunately interaction with fandoms online promotes this mindset. The exact opposite of what it should promote coincidentally.

It's just between finding out that J.A. Bayona was largely wasted for this movie, how little Universal has cared about this franchise after The Lost World, how they don't care about the canon, and everything else.

You know, I'm just going to say it, right here right now. I was mainly going to see this movie to give Bayona a fair chance, but after I found out that he was mostly wasted, that was the crippling blow for me. Like getting punched in the gut by Godzilla. The chances of me seeing this movie is 20%. In other words, it's possible, but not likely. I guess at this point, I'm only posting here in the franchise part in order to find SOMETHING that can convince me otherwise.

You haven't seen the film, therefore don't know if he was wasted yet.

Sobek wrote:

The whole problem of the whole " take them to Sorna" scenario is:

-> They're saving the Nublar dinos from extinction, only to super-populate Sorna when they're all dumped there? They will save them from extinction only to cause another?

It doesn't make that much sense tbh.

And just wiping out much, if not most, of the original dinosaur population on Sorna does?! The only way how that would make sense is if they were wiped out on purpose by Dr. Wu as an excuse to make new dinosaurs. And as much as I'd like to see that happen, given how Dr. Wu has gone to the dark side, I don't think Universal has the will/imagination to make it happen, let alone cares enough about the canon to care.

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

How is canon on a webpage or a book any different?

Because with a site/webpage that's considered canon, ANYBODY can hack and manipulate things at will. You can't do that with a book. You can hack a site, but you can't hack a book.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Sobek wrote:

The whole problem of the whole " take them to Sorna" scenario is:

-> They're saving the Nublar dinos from extinction, only to super-populate Sorna when they're all dumped there? They will save them from extinction only to cause another?

It doesn't make that much sense tbh.

And just wiping out much, if not most, of the original dinosaur population on Sorna does?! The only way how that would make sense is if they were wiped out on purpose by Dr. Wu as an excuse to make new dinosaurs. And as much as I'd like to see that happen, given how Dr. Wu has gone to the dark side, I don't think Universal has the will/imagination to make it happen, let alone cares enough about the canon to care.

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

How is canon on a webpage or a book any different?

Because with a site/webpage that's considered canon, ANYBODY can hack and manipulate things at will. You can't do that with a book. You can hack a site, but you can't hack a book.

So a screenplay written on a piece of software is less legit than a screenplay written on a typewriter because the script could be hacked? I don't think webpage canon is any less legitimate than a book.

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Sobek wrote:

The whole problem of the whole " take them to Sorna" scenario is:

-> They're saving the Nublar dinos from extinction, only to super-populate Sorna when they're all dumped there? They will save them from extinction only to cause another?

It doesn't make that much sense tbh.

And just wiping out much, if not most, of the original dinosaur population on Sorna does?! The only way how that would make sense is if they were wiped out on purpose by Dr. Wu as an excuse to make new dinosaurs. And as much as I'd like to see that happen, given how Dr. Wu has gone to the dark side, I don't think Universal has the will/imagination to make it happen, let alone cares enough about the canon to care.

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

How is canon on a webpage or a book any different?

Because with a site/webpage that's considered canon, ANYBODY can hack and manipulate things at will. You can't do that with a book. You can hack a site, but you can't hack a book.

So a screenplay written on a piece of software is less legit than a screenplay written on a typewriter because the script could be hacked? I don't think webpage canon is any less legitimate than a book.

Apples and oranges. A screenplay on a computer winds up on paper via printing, so you still have a physical form that's concrete. A site is far more fluid, more malleable, more easy to change things.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Sobek wrote:

The whole problem of the whole " take them to Sorna" scenario is:

-> They're saving the Nublar dinos from extinction, only to super-populate Sorna when they're all dumped there? They will save them from extinction only to cause another?

It doesn't make that much sense tbh.

And just wiping out much, if not most, of the original dinosaur population on Sorna does?! The only way how that would make sense is if they were wiped out on purpose by Dr. Wu as an excuse to make new dinosaurs. And as much as I'd like to see that happen, given how Dr. Wu has gone to the dark side, I don't think Universal has the will/imagination to make it happen, let alone cares enough about the canon to care.

Six-Foot Turkey wrote:

How is canon on a webpage or a book any different?

Because with a site/webpage that's considered canon, ANYBODY can hack and manipulate things at will. You can't do that with a book. You can hack a site, but you can't hack a book.

So a screenplay written on a piece of software is less legit than a screenplay written on a typewriter because the script could be hacked? I don't think webpage canon is any less legitimate than a book.

Apples and oranges. A screenplay on a computer winds up on paper via printing, so you still have a physical form that's concrete. A site is far more fluid, more malleable, more easy to change things.

A website can also be printed