General Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom News Thread V.2

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Filming in Hawaii will place place from June 5 - July 15 (5 weeks), so we can presume July 15 is the wrap date for filming? (total filming for the film will be roughly 5 months vs JW's 4) so hopefully we get a longer film? Also they are casting for military types in Hawaii only. Sounds like the military return to Nublar along with some of the cast to round up the Dino's?

http://jurassicoutpost.com/jurassic-world-2-casting-hawaii-shoot-filming-june-5th-july-15th-looking-military-types/

dance2nite wrote:

BD Wong is back filming in the UK according to this Instagram (Spinosaur4.4 would be happy to know _), he already filmed for 2 weeks back in early April before a break & has now returned.

Finally, great news! Damnit!

Best news of the month. 

Now I'm hyped.

He's going to film with Jeff...OMG no. No Malcolm scenes with Wu please.

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

If that were to happen, then I wonder if Wu unintentionally throws the big bad under the bus in some form to make himself look good.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

If that were to happen, then I wonder if Wu unintentionally throws the big bad under the bus in some form to make himself look good.

Ditto to both of these points; frankly the potential for intriguing dialogue and the opportunity for characters to hopefully discuss the thematic conceits of the series is too good to pass up! For once, this would be a moment of "fanservice" that would actually flow naturally from the kind of story that this is likely to be.

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

That could be an amazing scene. Maybe the best scene of pure dialogue the franchise has seen since the lunch scene from the first film.

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

Uh what about NO?

I don't want Wu to be made dumb with poor arguments just so Malcolm wins the debate and everyone have an orgasm. 

Because it's OBVIOUS they are going to  tone down one side (guess what side) just to make the MIGHT Malcolm the winner because uh he is like god and has all the knowledge and can't be wrong a single time. 

So yeah, I don't want Wu and Malcolm together because I know they are going to ruin it. 

It would be perfect IF they made both sides with strong arguments and different views over a subject with no real winner, but leave the audience and fans to pick a side and discuss what is more right to do.

Something like this: Malcolm has the ethic/moral side, and Wu is the voice of science.

Instead, this is what some people think:

Wu: Look, sometimes in science we need to cross ethics to make science. That doesn't mean we are evil. Most people don't know how science works and start to trash talk over something they don't know."

Malcolm: "UH CHAOS. That's why you are wrong. The end. "*insert futile joke here to make everyone laugh*

GA: "OMG LOLOLOLOL MALCOLM WINS! SO AWESOME"


NO is NO. Bad idea.

Quote :

If that were to happen, then I wonder if Wu unintentionally throws the big bad under the bus in some form to make himself look good.

He doesn't need to make himself look good. He says the truth whetever people like it or not. The hard truth people don't want to accept.

Mistral wrote:

Regardless, I couldn't resist making this one :p

Lol at the King Kong part

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

Uh what about NO?

I don't want Wu to be made dumb with poor arguments just so Malcolm wins the debate and everyone have an orgasm. 

Because it's OBVIOUS they are going to  tone down one side (guess what side) just to make the MIGHT Malcolm the winner because uh he is like god and has all the knowledge and can't be wrong a single time. 

So yeah, I don't want Wu and Malcolm together because I know they are going to ruin it. 

It would be perfect IF they made both sides with strong arguments and different views over a subject with no real winner, but leave the audience and fans to pick a side and discuss what is more right to do.

Something like this: Malcolm has the ethic/moral side, and Wu is the voice of science.

Instead, this is what some people think:

Wu: Look, sometimes in science we need to cross ethics to make science. That doesn't mean we are evil. Most people don't know how science works and start to trash talk over something they don't know."

Malcolm: "UH CHAOS. That's why you are wrong. The end. "*insert futile joke here to make everyone laugh*

GA: "OMG LOLOLOLOL MALCOLM WINS! SO AWESOME"


NO is NO. Bad idea.

Quote :

If that were to happen, then I wonder if Wu unintentionally throws the big bad under the bus in some form to make himself look good.

He doesn't need to make himself look good. He says the truth whetever people like it or not. The hard truth people don't want to accept.

Well I do wonder. Like Malcolms whole 'life will find a way' thing is a slam at Wu. So maybe Wu gets his revenge in this movie by saying "yes but I can control them. Step aside and Trust in nature? NOTHING IN JURASSIC WORLD IS NATURAL. Life will find a way? Nope. I can control it still. Life will find MY WAY."

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

BoulderFaceplant wrote:

Um, yes Malcolm scenes with Wu PLEASE! Imagine the heated argument!

Uh what about NO?


Because it's OBVIOUS they are going to tone down one side (guess what side) just to make the MIGHT Malcolm the winner because uh he is like god and has all the knowledge and can't be wrong a single time. 

So yeah, I don't want Wu and Malcolm together because I know they are going to ruin it. 

It would be perfect IF they made both sides with strong arguments and different views over a subject with no real winner, but leave the audience and fans to pick a side and discuss what is more right to do.

Something like this: Malcolm has the ethic/moral side, and Wu is the voice of science.

Instead, this is what some people think:

Wu: Look, sometimes in science we need to cross ethics to make science. That doesn't mean we are evil. Most people don't know how science works and start to trash talk over something they don't know."

Malcolm: "UH CHAOS. That's why you are wrong. The end. "*insert futile joke here to make everyone laugh*

GA: "OMG LOLOLOLOL MALCOLM WINS! SO AWESOME"


NO is NO. Bad idea.

Quote :

If that were to happen, then I wonder if Wu unintentionally throws the big bad under the bus in some form to make himself look good.

He doesn't need to make himself look good. He says the truth whetever people like it or not. The hard truth people don't want to accept.

Truth to you, anyway. Haven't you considered that Wu has so much power that he can't realize what he's doing or that he's being controlled?

Sickle_Claw wrote:

Well I do wonder. Like Malcolms whole 'life will find a way' thing is a slam at Wu. So maybe Wu gets his revenge in this movie by saying "yes but I can control them. Step aside and Trust in nature? NOTHING IN JURASSIC WORLD IS NATURAL. Life will find a way? Nope. I can control it still. Life will find MY WAY."

This would be the best way.

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 


Wu is controlled? By who? 

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

Well I would argue the theme park park is debatable . 

And possibly even the weapons part.

But that depends on if you believe in an objective morality I suppose. Which is not really a conversation I want to go into because it would probably get heated lol.

Edit: the word I was looking for was "absolute" instead of objective.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

You should ask that to the scientists that will clone mammonths in 2 years. Or Neanderthal clonning too. 


The weapon part I don't agree with, and in fact Wu just made I.rex but we don't know if he really cares/agree about it being used as a weapon. For all we know, he wants to push science foward and will do everything he needs to archieve this goal, even agree to make a bioweapon for someone else. 

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

You should ask that to the scientists that will clone mammoths in 2 years. Or Neanderthal clonning too. 


The weapon part I don't agree with, and in fact Wu just made I.rex but we don't know if he really cares/agree about it being used as a weapon. For all we know, he wants to push science foward and will do everything he needs to archieve this goal, even agree to make a bioweapon for someone else. 

Here's the thing with the mammoths. Considering how man played a large part in wiping them out, you could make an argument that man has a moral obligation to bring them back. Man didn't wipe out the dinosaurs. As for Wu, considering how Hoskins was his handler, he had to have known something about I. rex being a bioweapon. And even if Hoskins said nothing, he had to had put 2 and 2 together and find it out himself.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

You should ask that to the scientists that will clone mammoths in 2 years. Or Neanderthal clonning too. 


The weapon part I don't agree with, and in fact Wu just made I.rex but we don't know if he really cares/agree about it being used as a weapon. For all we know, he wants to push science foward and will do everything he needs to archieve this goal, even agree to make a bioweapon for someone else. 

Here's the thing with the mammoths. Considering how man played a large part in wiping them out, you could make an argument that man has a moral obligation to bring them back. Man didn't wipe out the dinosaurs. As for Wu, considering how Hoskins was his handler, he had to have known something about I. rex being a bioweapon. And even if Hoskins said nothing, he had to had put 2 and 2 together and find it out himself.

Well, if they are clonned back, do you really think they'll be set free? They'll probably have a theme park for them. Something I think you are against, since you said above about dinosaurs being created and put in theme parks. 

Of course Wu knew something about what Hoskins wanted, but I doubt he cared. He probably agreed to work together because they gave more freedom for his research.Wu cares for science, he wanted to create a new thing, test his hybrid theories and genetic engineering, they gave him an excuse and he created what he imagined to be something totally new and with a lot of potential (to be destructive, as it turned out to be).


And Tyrant,  I don't remember man trying to control dinosaurs, unless if you are talking about Owen and his poor excuse of "training". I don't buy the "mutual respect" bullshit.

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really. I would say more control is allowed, since the scientists can fiddle with the DNA.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

You should ask that to the scientists that will clone mammoths in 2 years. Or Neanderthal clonning too. 


The weapon part I don't agree with, and in fact Wu just made I.rex but we don't know if he really cares/agree about it being used as a weapon. For all we know, he wants to push science foward and will do everything he needs to archieve this goal, even agree to make a bioweapon for someone else. 

Here's the thing with the mammoths. Considering how man played a large part in wiping them out, you could make an argument that man has a moral obligation to bring them back. Man didn't wipe out the dinosaurs. As for Wu, considering how Hoskins was his handler, he had to have known something about I. rex being a bioweapon. And even if Hoskins said nothing, he had to had put 2 and 2 together and find it out himself.

Well, if they are clonned back, do you really think they'll be set free? They'll probably have a theme park for them. Something I think you are against, since you said above about dinosaurs being created and put in theme parks. 

Of course Wu knew something about what Hoskins wanted, but I doubt he cared. He probably agreed to work together because they gave more freedom for his research.Wu cares for science, he wanted to create a new thing, test his hybrid theories and genetic engineering, they gave him an excuse and he created what he imagined to be something totally new and with a lot of potential (to be destructive, as it turned out to be).

Eventually yes. They will have be in zoos of some sort for a while, which is something of a necessary with endangered species nowadays. But over time, they will eventually make room for a natural preserve in Alaska via TLW ended with Sorna. Even Canada and Russia would throw in. After all Canada and Russia has a lot of land that isn't much populated.

And if that is true about Wu, then he really is a man who is so wrapped up in his work that he doesn't see the bigger picture or care about who is pulling the strings.

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

The debate wouldn't happen that way, you know. That's why I'm against it. People would want "mighty" Malcolm to win just because they like him and he can't be wrong anytime.

Anyway, our species is using technology to avoid natural selection at some point. Of course we are still affected by it even if we don't think so and techonology is also making us dependent. Natural selection will still get us of course, but that means we should stop trying to develop new technologies to minimize the effect and survive it? Because well, nature is constant chaos, so let's just leave it...

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

You should ask that to the scientists that will clone mammoths in 2 years. Or Neanderthal clonning too. 


The weapon part I don't agree with, and in fact Wu just made I.rex but we don't know if he really cares/agree about it being used as a weapon. For all we know, he wants to push science foward and will do everything he needs to archieve this goal, even agree to make a bioweapon for someone else. 

Here's the thing with the mammoths. Considering how man played a large part in wiping them out, you could make an argument that man has a moral obligation to bring them back. Man didn't wipe out the dinosaurs. As for Wu, considering how Hoskins was his handler, he had to have known something about I. rex being a bioweapon. And even if Hoskins said nothing, he had to had put 2 and 2 together and find it out himself.

Well, if they are clonned back, do you really think they'll be set free? They'll probably have a theme park for them. Something I think you are against, since you said above about dinosaurs being created and put in theme parks. 

Of course Wu knew something about what Hoskins wanted, but I doubt he cared. He probably agreed to work together because they gave more freedom for his research.Wu cares for science, he wanted to create a new thing, test his hybrid theories and genetic engineering, they gave him an excuse and he created what he imagined to be something totally new and with a lot of potential (to be destructive, as it turned out to be).

Eventually yes. They will have be in zoos of some sort for a while, which is something of a necessary with endangered species nowadays. But over time, they will eventually make room for a natural preserve in Alaska via TLW ended with Sorna. Even Canada and Russia would throw in. After all Canada and Russia has a lot of land that isn't much populated.

And if that is true about Wu, then he really is a man who is so wrapped up in his work that he doesn't see the bigger picture or care about who is pulling the strings.

 
Dude. I seriously doubt it would be a good idea or that the government would set Mammoths free anywhere. I don't know what the incentive would be, how the animals would integrate etc.

Science isn't trying to bring Mammoths back because our species had a hand in their destruction. They've been gone for a long time. We don't need them.  They are doing it to push the boundaries and probably try to create and clone more stuff just like it.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I never saw that as a slam to him. I think even he agrees that Life finds a way. But should that be an obstacle against science? Or any research? NOPE.

"Truth to you."

No, truth is truth, accepting you or not. See? You just proved my point. Conforting lies are more accepted by the general population than truth. 

But if you find this argument valid, I will say the same to you guys when you come with "Malcolm says the truth." 

There may be some relative truths, but absolute truths also exist and they exist. That's just hard fact. What Wu is doing goes against what man should go. The fact the he made I. rex, a living biological weapon, is more then enough proof of that.

"Goes against what man should go"


Define this, please.

Was man ever supposed to bring back dinosaurs for the sake of a theme park, let alone turn them into biological weapons? No, but Wu did all that anyways.

You should ask that to the scientists that will clone mammoths in 2 years. Or Neanderthal clonning too. 


The weapon part I don't agree with, and in fact Wu just made I.rex but we don't know if he really cares/agree about it being used as a weapon. For all we know, he wants to push science foward and will do everything he needs to archieve this goal, even agree to make a bioweapon for someone else. 

Here's the thing with the mammoths. Considering how man played a large part in wiping them out, you could make an argument that man has a moral obligation to bring them back. Man didn't wipe out the dinosaurs. As for Wu, considering how Hoskins was his handler, he had to have known something about I. rex being a bioweapon. And even if Hoskins said nothing, he had to had put 2 and 2 together and find it out himself.

Well, if they are clonned back, do you really think they'll be set free? They'll probably have a theme park for them. Something I think you are against, since you said above about dinosaurs being created and put in theme parks. 

Of course Wu knew something about what Hoskins wanted, but I doubt he cared. He probably agreed to work together because they gave more freedom for his research.Wu cares for science, he wanted to create a new thing, test his hybrid theories and genetic engineering, they gave him an excuse and he created what he imagined to be something totally new and with a lot of potential (to be destructive, as it turned out to be).

Eventually yes. They will have be in zoos of some sort for a while, which is something of a necessary with endangered species nowadays. But over time, they will eventually make room for a natural preserve in Alaska via TLW ended with Sorna. Even Canada and Russia would throw in. After all Canada and Russia has a lot of land that isn't much populated.

And if that is true about Wu, then he really is a man who is so wrapped up in his work that he doesn't see the bigger picture or care about who is pulling the strings.

Now I think we are coming to a common point of view. I agree with that. Actually that's exactly what I get from his character. I don't see him as an evil person, but actually someone that is too much foccused on his work that he can't see around himself. Someone that kinda disconected from reality somehow. Like Claire was in JW before I.rex escaped. But in a more extreme way I guess.


@Troyal

Can you imagine the potential of this? New studies and research that can be done with those animals. Like how it was our interaction with the species, the species interaction as a whole, morphology, behaviour, taxonomy classification...So many stuff to study, it's incredible!

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really. I would say more control is allowed, since the scientists can fiddle with the DNA.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

Well, I'm not going to get into a debate over it. Merely stating the message that the franchise has always projected. Anyone is free to disagree with that message if they so choose.

That being said, I believe Grant actually said it best.

"Dinosaurs and man- Two species separated by 65 million years of evolution have suddenly been thrown back into the mix together. How can we have the slightest idea what to expect?"

And, bringing it back to Malcolm for a minute, my favorite quote of his is this.

"What's so great about discovery? It a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world."

And it brings to the forefront the question "What is so great about discovery?" At it's core, discovery is the the act of carrying out mankinds selfish desire for answers. And yes, often times, whether intentionally or not, mankinds need to "discover" things and make "scientific progress" can be very harmful.

Is fulfilling our selfish need for answers enough to justify the potential harm to the natural world that could come of it?

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really. I would say more control is allowed, since the scientists can fiddle with the DNA.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

Well, I'm not going to get into a debate over it. Merely stating the message that the franchise has always projected. Anyone is free to disagree with that message if they so choose.

That being said, I believe Grant actually said it best.

"Dinosaurs and man- Two species separated by 65 million years of evolution have suddenly been thrown back into the mix together. How can we have the slightest idea what to expect?"

And, bringing it back to Malcolm for a minute, my favorite quote of his is this.

"What's so great about discovery? It a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world."

And it brings to the forefront the question "What is so great about discovery?" At it's core, discovery is the the act of carrying out mankinds selfish desire for answers. And yes, often times, whether intentionally or not, mankinds need to "discover" things and make "scientific progress" can be very harmful.

Is fulfilling our selfish need for answers enough to justify the potential harm to the natural world that could come of it?

I don't disagree with anything you said. It's 100% a big theme of the franchise. Indisputable. But I think your last sentence can be applied to many things we are doing today already. As far as the medical field for example. Some would argue we are going too far and playing God in some of  our "discoveries" while others would argue we are trying to help people and extend their life. 

There are so many grey areas in science as to what we are doing is "right" or "wrong". 

That's where i think Spino4.4 is coming from. I think he wants to make sure that the pro science  and pro Dino's back to life side gets a fair and reasonable shake. That the conversation isn't dominated by Malcolm and that he actually gets proven wrong on a few things or atleast countered sufficiently.

Personally I'd kinda like to see the series meet in the middle so to speak, by the time it ends.

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really. I would say more control is allowed, since the scientists can fiddle with the DNA.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

Well, I'm not going to get into a debate over it. Merely stating the message that the franchise has always projected. Anyone is free to disagree with that message if they so choose.

That being said, I believe Grant actually said it best.

"Dinosaurs and man- Two species separated by 65 million years of evolution have suddenly been thrown back into the mix together. How can we have the slightest idea what to expect?"

And, bringing it back to Malcolm for a minute, my favorite quote of his is this.

"What's so great about discovery? It a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world."

And it brings to the forefront the question "What is so great about discovery?" At it's core, discovery is the the act of carrying out mankinds selfish desire for answers. And yes, often times, whether intentionally or not, mankinds need to "discover" things and make "scientific progress" can be very harmful.

Is fulfilling our selfish need for answers enough to justify the potential harm to the natural world that could come of it?

I don't disagree with anything you said. It's 100% a big theme of the franchise. Indisputable. But I think your last sentence can be applied to many things we are doing today already. As far as the medical field for example. Some would argue we are going too far and playing God in some of  our "discoveries" while others would argue we are trying to help people and extend their life. 

There are so many grey areas in science as to what we are doing is "right" or "wrong". 

That's where i think Spino4.4 is coming from. I think he wants to make sure that the pro science  and pro Dino's back to life side gets a fair and reasonable shake. That the conversation isn't dominated by Malcolm and that he actually gets proven wrong on a few things or atleast countered sufficiently.

Personally I'd kinda like to see the series meet in the middle so to speak, by the time it ends.

In order to do that, the franchise is going to have to present "pro science" side of things in a way that makes it actually seem beneficial, productive, and morally just. To this point, the "pro science" side of things has merely been a front in an attempt to excuse the complete disregard towards the lives of these animals for profits.

It is ground that absolutely should be explored though. I'll certainly agree with you on that.

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really. I would say more control is allowed, since the scientists can fiddle with the DNA.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

And, bringing it back to Malcolm for a minute, my favorite quote of his is this.

"What's so great about discovery? It a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world."

And it brings to the forefront the question "What is so great about discovery?" At it's core, discovery is the the act of carrying out mankinds selfish desire for answers. And yes, often times, whether intentionally or not, mankinds need to "discover" things and make "scientific progress" can be very harmful.

Is fulfilling our selfish need for answers enough to justify the potential harm to the natural world that could come of it?

OMG this is so anti-science...Asking questions and wanting answers is not wrong. It's actually a quality of our species, it shows the desire for knowledge, and knowledge is the MOST valuable thing you have, bc nobody can steal it from you. Knowledge is valuable and should be valuable. But our society laughs at it. People that ask too much questions are hated and called annoying. That's why not everyone can be a scientist. And guess what? They are the people that change the world, not the people that laugh at them. Asking questions is one of the things I most admire in a person. It shows that the person is humble enough to admit he/she doesn't know everything and want to absorve more knowledge. It shows the person is self aware of everything around. Being selfish is when you think we know enough and should stop trying to discover new things and get static.

We are here  using internet, eletricity and computer because someone asked questions and wanted to know. We are here because some people discovered things. It's so disrespectful to call discoveries a "rape" to the natural world. I would tell Malcolm to live in a fucking cave then. Spitting in a plate and confortable life. We are here because we stand on the shoulder of giants. People that spent all their lifes to answer questions and help humanity, only to be called selfish.  We need to understand where we are, how we are here and wonder how many stuff await to be discovered. Great things that you can't even imagine with your mind. Just writing this make me shiver to imagine how big our Universe is and how people only live in a little futile world. The more you get to know, the more you know you know so little. It's a paradox, but makes you humble. It makes you pop out of the bubble of daily life and see how small we are, and how incredible everything around us is. 

To quote one of my favorite lines:

"I don't want to belive. I want to know."

And also another brillant one from Carl Sagan:

"We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology"


This alone kills everything.



If discovery is a violation, so it is the adoration of ignorance while using science in a daily life. That's why I came to hate this line from Malcolm.

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm sorry, but hasn't the whole theme of the franchise since the first film been that "You can't control nature"?

JP: Man creates dinosaurs, man tries to control dinosaurs, dinosaurs break free and f*ck sh*t up.

TLW: Man tries to again control dinosaurs, dinosaurs again f*ck sh*t up as a result.

JW: Man creates hybrid dinosaur, man tries to control hybrid dinosaur, hybrid dinosaur f*cks sh*t up.

I'm sensing a thematic pattern here xD

I mean yeah. But that's the thing that always bugged me about the JP franchise and the Malcolm character in particular. Sure we can't control nature. But is what happened in JP any more uncontrollable than what we already try to do with science and technology? I personally don't think so. 

 The disasters that happened in JP, TLW and JW are all because of human error. Not because life finds away and the animals are "uncontrollable". They aren't anymore uncontrollable than the animals you see in a zoo today really. I would say more control is allowed, since the scientists can fiddle with the DNA.  They would operate perfectly as zoo's (like JW did) but the plot demands there be chaos. And that the leadership be woefully stupid or corrupt. And it demands the park be extremely easy for a disaster and have rather pathetic defensive measures. 

I understand the theme of it. That we should be humble and always question what we are doing. Like the Frog DNA allowing the animals to become female. Huge oversight. But that didn't necessarily cause a massive problem. But Malcolm has this attitude that nature finding a way was the source of all the problems, which I heavily disagree with. 

Like let's assume Nedry never shut the fences off... what would the problem of bringing the animals to life be? As long as they were treated with respect. 

So I do see how some people might find his character a bit preachy tbh and I agree with Spino 4.4 to some extent.  

A science debate scene between the two of them would be perfect. Where they both bring good points to the table but not a clear winner.

Well, I'm not going to get into a debate over it. Merely stating the message that the franchise has always projected. Anyone is free to disagree with that message if they so choose.

That being said, I believe Grant actually said it best.

"Dinosaurs and man- Two species separated by 65 million years of evolution have suddenly been thrown back into the mix together. How can we have the slightest idea what to expect?"

And, bringing it back to Malcolm for a minute, my favorite quote of his is this.

"What's so great about discovery? It a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world."

And it brings to the forefront the question "What is so great about discovery?" At it's core, discovery is the the act of carrying out mankinds selfish desire for answers. And yes, often times, whether intentionally or not, mankinds need to "discover" things and make "scientific progress" can be very harmful.

Is fulfilling our selfish need for answers enough to justify the potential harm to the natural world that could come of it?

I don't disagree with anything you said. It's 100% a big theme of the franchise. Indisputable. But I think your last sentence can be applied to many things we are doing today already. As far as the medical field for example. Some would argue we are going too far and playing God in some of  our "discoveries" while others would argue we are trying to help people and extend their life. 

There are so many grey areas in science as to what we are doing is "right" or "wrong". 

That's where i think Spino4.4 is coming from. I think he wants to make sure that the pro science  and pro Dino's back to life side gets a fair and reasonable shake. That the conversation isn't dominated by Malcolm and that he actually gets proven wrong on a few things or atleast countered sufficiently.

Personally I'd kinda like to see the series meet in the middle so to speak, by the time it ends.

In order to do that, the franchise is going to have to present "pro science" side of things in a way that makes it actually seem beneficial, productive, and morally just. To this point, the "pro science" side of things has merely been a front in an attempt to excuse the complete disregard towards the lives of these animals for profits.

It is ground that absolutely should be explored though. I'll certainly agree with you on that.

Yep!!!  Exactly And this is why I want to see the series move in a very different direction and show us some very different things. 

I'm really trying to hold faith that Bayona can bring that to the table. If any movie should far has the potential to do this I feel like this is the one to get it started.