Did Hoskins and Wu planned the incident to happen?

I think they did but the film cleverly kept the answer so ambiguous it constantly makes you second guess it. Hoskins, during his conversation with Wu, said they had "a little side project". I presume he was taking about having hybrids for military weapons and that sounds like they've been planning this for a long time so how likely was the incident an accident? Was the Indominus secretly made to always end up being a weapon? I also don't believe Hoskins really wanted the Raptors to be weapons but really to use them to test how deadly the hybrid really was and when the Indominus took command of the Raptors that's what Hoskins ment by "the mission took a jog to the left" as he nevered got to see how dangerous his hybrid was.

I don't think they planned for the incident to happen to be honest. I do think however that the Indominus was meant secretly as a prototype to test out for their secret military plan. The base of their genome would then be expanded on. I don't think they meant for it to go as far as they did, mainly bc they still needed Masrani to sign off on it.

But Masrani would've never sign anything like that. Owen did say "Masrani doesn't make weapons".

I know he doesn't. They didn't need Masrani to sign off on it as a weapon...they needed Masrani to give it an okay as an attraction. It was a prototype for a bioweapon...that was cleverly disguised as a legitimate attraction.

Hoskins wanted the Raptors to be military weapons. If he didn't, he wouldn't of been so adamant about using them in a field test and then eventually one day using them in wars.

I wouldn't say so. I mean, of course Hoskins wanted something that would cause chaos so he could test his ideas. But I don't think Wu necessary wanted Indominus to escape, because that would put his job in jeopardy, something he clearly, as a genius and reputed scientist, wouldn't want. You can also see his face and reaction as Hoskins tells him the park is done. That would be the first thing I would think if I was in Wu's place. It's the most reasonable thing that comes in my mind, and if a normal person like me can think about that, surelly Wu would too.


So, what I think it happened: Wu at first didn't want to go in with the plan because that would be risky and expose him. Hoskins then said that if anything happened (like the I.rex escaping) he would make sure Wu would be shielded from everything. But I think neither Wu or Hoskins really thought that I.rex would cause the park to close forever or something like that.

I can imagine a conversation like this:

Wu: "You know, an animal like this will have abillities that can't be contained, are you aware of the risks? I can't put my job in risk because of that. I need to be leading the innovations, and if I can't innovate, someone else will in my place."

Hoskins: "Ahem, calm down doc. Nothing will happen. I'm the leader of the security, I won't let anything happen. The animal will be safe. We have a T.rex here and many other dinosaurs, why it would be different with this?"

Wu: "You clearly aren't aware of the situation. This animal, is more than just a dinosaur. It's created to have incredible abillities that none of the other Jurassic World dinosaurs have. It's a living bioweapon, like you wanted. It can easilly cause problems if it discovers the gifted abillities it has."

Hoskins: "Ahem, again, I won't let this happen. And IF it happens, I'll make sure you escape all the consequences. Belive me."

I don't think so, because of that first call he makes. I don't remember the exact wording, but he seems to be ok with it being tested but he doesn't seem exactly upset the Indominus is out and causing problems.

TheDreamMaster wrote:

I don't think so, because of that first call he makes. I don't remember the exact wording, but he seems to be ok with it being tested but he doesn't seem exactly upset the Indominus is out and causing problems.

I think he had a plan for if it got out, and the ACU was meant to be that plan. He did not anticipate that the ACU would get wiped out completely though.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I wouldn't say so. I mean, of course Hoskins wanted something that would cause chaos so he could test his ideas. But I don't think Wu necessary wanted Indominus to escape, because that would put his job in jeopardy, something he clearly, as a genius and reputed scientist, wouldn't want. You can also see his face and reaction as Hoskins tells him the park is done. That would be the first thing I would think if I was in Wu's place. It's the most reasonable thing that comes in my mind, and if a normal person like me can think about that, surelly Wu would too.


So, what I think it happened: Wu at first didn't want to go in with the plan because that would be risky and expose him. Hoskins then said that if anything happened (like the I.rex escaping) he would make sure Wu would be shielded from everything. But I think neither Wu or Hoskins really thought that I.rex would cause the park to close forever or something like that.

I can imagine a conversation like this:

Wu: "You know, an animal like this will have abillities that can't be contained, are you aware of the risks? I can't put my job in risk because of that. I need to be leading the innovations, and if I can't innovate, someone else will in my place."

Hoskins: "Ahem, calm down doc. Nothing will happen. I'm the leader of the security, I won't let anything happen. The animal will be safe. We have a T.rex here and many other dinosaurs, why it would be different with this?"

Wu: "You clearly aren't aware of the situation. This animal, is more than just a dinosaur. It's created to have incredible abillities that none of the other Jurassic World dinosaurs have. It's a living bioweapon, like you wanted. It can easilly cause problems if it discovers the gifted abillities it has."

Hoskins: "Ahem, again, I won't let this happen. And IF it happens, I'll make sure you escape all the consequences. Belive me."

When the Indominus escapes, Hoskins says "We might have an opportunity". Hoskins probably thought "Yeah, now I can use the Raptors towards the Indominus and show everyone how they can be used as weapons, so we will be legitimated to use also the mini-Indominus as weapons!".
But eventually it backfired, and Dr Wu was like "Wtf... and now?" and InGen guys "Don't worry, you're safe, and you will be well rewarded", and Wu "...okay...."

Sickle_Claw wrote:

TheDreamMaster wrote:

I don't think so, because of that first call he makes. I don't remember the exact wording, but he seems to be ok with it being tested but he doesn't seem exactly upset the Indominus is out and causing problems.

I think he had a plan for if it got out, and the ACU was meant to be that plan. He did not anticipate that the ACU would get wiped out completely though.

True. Haven't watched it all the way through in a couple months, I have a bad habit of catching it on HBO, and it's usually around the part where they release the Raptors.

owenpratt wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

I wouldn't say so. I mean, of course Hoskins wanted something that would cause chaos so he could test his ideas. But I don't think Wu necessary wanted Indominus to escape, because that would put his job in jeopardy, something he clearly, as a genius and reputed scientist, wouldn't want. You can also see his face and reaction as Hoskins tells him the park is done. That would be the first thing I would think if I was in Wu's place. It's the most reasonable thing that comes in my mind, and if a normal person like me can think about that, surelly Wu would too.


So, what I think it happened: Wu at first didn't want to go in with the plan because that would be risky and expose him. Hoskins then said that if anything happened (like the I.rex escaping) he would make sure Wu would be shielded from everything. But I think neither Wu or Hoskins really thought that I.rex would cause the park to close forever or something like that.

I can imagine a conversation like this:

Wu: "You know, an animal like this will have abillities that can't be contained, are you aware of the risks? I can't put my job in risk because of that. I need to be leading the innovations, and if I can't innovate, someone else will in my place."

Hoskins: "Ahem, calm down doc. Nothing will happen. I'm the leader of the security, I won't let anything happen. The animal will be safe. We have a T.rex here and many other dinosaurs, why it would be different with this?"

Wu: "You clearly aren't aware of the situation. This animal, is more than just a dinosaur. It's created to have incredible abillities that none of the other Jurassic World dinosaurs have. It's a living bioweapon, like you wanted. It can easilly cause problems if it discovers the gifted abillities it has."

Hoskins: "Ahem, again, I won't let this happen. And IF it happens, I'll make sure you escape all the consequences. Belive me."

When the Indominus escapes, Hoskins says "We might have an opportunity". Hoskins probably thought "Yeah, now I can use the Raptors towards the Indominus and show everyone how they can be used as weapons, so we will be legitimated to use also the mini-Indominus as weapons!".
But eventually it backfired, and Dr Wu was like "Wtf... and now?" and InGen guys "Don't worry, you're safe, and you will be well rewarded", and Wu "...okay...."

Yeah, I agree too. I think when Hoskins calls someone and says "we might have an opportunity" he refers to his idea in using raptors as weapons, and with I.rex out there he could have the perfect time to test them. And Wu was like "Great, I'm screwed" when Hoskins told him the park was done and they needed to change plans.

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Yeah, I agree too. I think when Hoskins calls someone and says "we might have an opportunity" he refers  to his idea in using raptors as weapons, and with I.rex out there he could have the perfect time to test them. And Wu was like "Great, I'm screwed" when Hoskins told him the park was done and they needed to change plans.

I wonder if Hoskins did all of this for money, or he was just a war-believer. His speech with Owen about how war breeds greatness and it's part of nature would lead me to think it's the latter.

Sickle_Claw wrote:

I know he doesn't. They didn't need Masrani to sign off on it as a weapon...they needed Masrani to give it an okay as an attraction. It was a prototype for a bioweapon...that was cleverly disguised as a legitimate attraction.

This.

I'm guessing Wu and Hoskins simply wanted to see if creating a bioweapon like the Indominus was possible. They simply needed an excuse to create it, and used "genetically modified hybrid dinosaur attraction" as a pitch to get the green light to create the Indominus. It's clear that Hoskins, as head of InGen security, was looking forward to a military contract, which is something Masrani didn't yet have. The Indominus breaking out and wreaking havoc was simply an unfortunate opportunity for Hoskins and Wu to field test both the iRex and the Raptors.

owenpratt wrote:

Spinosaur4.4 wrote:

Yeah, I agree too. I think when Hoskins calls someone and says "we might have an opportunity" he refers  to his idea in using raptors as weapons, and with I.rex out there he could have the perfect time to test them. And Wu was like "Great, I'm screwed" when Hoskins told him the park was done and they needed to change plans.

I wonder if Hoskins did all of this for money, or he was just a war-believer. His speech with Owen about how war breeds greatness and it's part of nature would lead me to think it's the latter.

I think he really belived in what he said. He was kinda a fanatic about war and those stuff.

What if the whole "I want Raptors to be military weapons!" was only a ruse and the Indominus was Hoskins true weapon all along? Think about it, the Indominus whole design just screams military weapon, so was its creation from the beginning always secretly ment for wars and if so how likely was the incident an pure accident? Maybe Hoskins's "Mission" was to test if the Indominus could kill a Raptor pack not the other way around. I know this is only a theory but I think it's as possible as Hoskins merely taking advantage of the hybrid's escape. Hoskins when talking to Wu referred to making hybrid war dinosaurs as "their little side project" which to me implies that they have been planning this for a long time.

We know that Hoskins wanted a field test for the raptors, and he's been trying to get as much data on their abilities as he can. He probably also wanted to field-test Indominus at some point, but didn't have a means by which to do so at the time. But then, it got out, and he had his chance to perform field tests on both the raptors and iRex simultaneously. Whichever one ended up winning could be presented to the government as their new unbeatable bioweapon. But, of course, then things went hilariously wrong and a bunch of people died, ending with Hoskins himself.

On Wu's side of things, he probably doesn't care about the weaponization of his creations that much, it's just another way to make money. I think he has entirely different motives (some of you from JPL may remember my hypothesis that he's trying to create hardier animals to human-proof the biosphere and prevent the next mass extinction event, harming humans if necessary but not going out of his way to do so). Hoskins knew that Wu wanted to do more than design theme-park monsters, and needed Wu's help to make the bioweapon of his dreams to keep the United States on top of the global military game. He approached Wu, who was already frustrated with Masrani's demands for bigger and cooler dinosaurs, and made a deal where they could help each other out.

So neither of them really wanted the Jurassic World incident to occur, but both wanted to move beyond what the park could provide. Wu wanted to advance his research above what he had been doing for Jurassic World, and Hoskins wanted to ensure that the United States would be ready for the next major war using genetic engineering to make the perfect weapon. The incident at first looked to be the perfect opportunity for Hoskins, but was a disaster for Wu; in the end, it was much more of a disaster for Hoskins (and would have been even worse for him had he survived) and not so bad for Wu, who got out unscathed and will probably be permitted to continue his research under the supervision of InGen Security.

Would anyone here be disappointed if my theory becomes a reality in JW2? That Hoskins and Wu were both just Nedry 2.0? I know it may not happen but since Wu's still alive you can never tell what will happen next?

Dr. Wu wrote:

Would anyone here be disappointed if my theory becomes a reality in JW2? That Hoskins and Wu were both just Nedry 2.0? I know it may not happen but since Wu's still alive you can never tell what will happen next?

You mean like if Wu sold out to BioSyn or someone? It's not impossible. I don't think that Wu really cares that much about InGen specifically at this point; he lives for his work, and he'll work for whoever funds his research. If BioSyn came along and was like "Hey, we'll pay you twice as much to research for us," he'd probably take the offer.

I'm not sure that Hoskins would sell out, as the head of InGen Security he's not in a very convenient defecting position. I think he'd stay loyal to InGen. Besides, his concern doesn't seem to be money; he legitimately thinks that the American military needs living biological weapons in order to stay ahead of its enemies around the globe.

Troodon_formosus wrote:

Dr. Wu wrote:

Would anyone here be disappointed if my theory becomes a reality in JW2? That Hoskins and Wu were both just Nedry 2.0? I know it may not happen but since Wu's still alive you can never tell what will happen next?

You mean like if Wu sold out to BioSyn or someone? It's not impossible. I don't think that Wu really cares that much about InGen specifically at this point; he lives for his work, and he'll work for whoever funds his research. If BioSyn came along and was like "Hey, we'll pay you twice as much to research for us," he'd probably take the offer.

I'm not sure that Hoskins would sell out, as the head of InGen Security he's not in a very convenient defecting position. I think he'd stay loyal to InGen. Besides, his concern doesn't seem to be money; he legitimately thinks that the American military needs living biological weapons in order to stay ahead of its enemies around the globe.

I mean what if JW2 reveals that Hoskins and Wu secretly made the Indominus so deadly on purpose so that it could start a incident which would get the militaries interest. It would be like them saying, "That hybrid proved to be very dangerous, we need something like that to fight our enemies." I know this isn't a popular theory but I began to believe this when going to JW's tropes.com page and Hoskins's and Wu's villains wiki pages.

I don't think Wu did what he did because he wants money. I mean, he wants money, but only to improve his research and discoveries. He loves science and probably thinks it's the most important thing ("People died, but at least I made a scientific revolution with the Indominus"), so of course he will follow the ones who give him a higher paycheck, so he can have more money to experiment. I don't think he really cares about military forces having bioweapon, or similar. He just wants to push the boundaries of scientific discovery. I'm pretty sure that he will go too far and this will backfire, culminating with his eventual death scene.

owenpratt wrote:

I don't think Wu did what he did because he wants money. I mean, he wants money, but only to improve his research and discoveries. He loves science and probably thinks it's the most important thing  ("People died, but at least I made a scientific revolution with the Indominus"), so of course he will follow the ones who give him a higher paycheck, so he can have more money to experiment. I don't think he really cares about military forces having bioweapon, or similar. He just wants to push the boundaries of scientific discovery. I'm pretty sure that he will go too far and this will backfire, culminating with his eventual death scene.

Finally someone who get's the character. Also, +rep for Troodon too. He get's the character very well too.

Wu doesn't really care about whetever they'll do with the dinosaurs, if they'll use just as park animals or in military forces. He's a science guy. He lives and works for science only, like a loyal servant. I don't think he wants more money, I belive as the lead geneticist of JW, he earned a lot. And if he wants money, it's surelly to fund his research. Like Grant wanted to do with his research too. The difference is that Wu is very view "blinded" and only lives for science and discovering new things. He can't see the things around him neither the ppl. And yeah, for him, science is bigger than him and everyone else, something greater than "futile mind thinking meatbags" or something like this. He's commited to risk not the lives of other ppl, but even himself, to make progress and discover new things, revolutionary things that can change the whole world. He's a visionary, evil? Maybe, that depends on the moral of each person that will judge the character. He's a person that can do both bad and good things. It just depends where science will take him into. And that's why I find the character fascinating, because while most of JP/JW characters think like common normal people, he must be thinking like "imagine how far I can go with this and discover new things no one imagined possible" or "the universe is so big, why would I spend my time with futile things when I can try and explore the possibilities? I will die like everyone, let me spend my life doing something great.".

He'll die doing this, yes, but what's the problem? Marie Curie, risked her own life studying radiation with her husband, Pierre Curie. She died of cancer, IIRC. Her study granted her 2 Nobels. She not only discovered new pivotal things for radioativity/chermistry field, but also 2 new elements on the periodic table, again, IIRC. She made the difference. She's also one of my inspirations on science.

Yeah, I hope in JW2 they keep Wu as the guy who does all of this for science, and not for money or other purposes, which would make him a generic character.

Wu should definitely be more interested in science than money in his involvement with Hoskins. Back on Hoskins, when he heard that an asset had escaped he said, "They are going to learn all kinds of things about their new asset now." That to me implies that he knew it was the hybrid and that he knew it was to eventually escape. And if Hoskins knew the incident was to happen then surely Wu knew too. Maybe I'm looking to much into this but the more I rewatch JW I believe they planned it.

Hoskins seems a little strained to me when he says "They're gonna learn all kinds of things about their new asset," like he knows that s**t has just hit the fan. I don't think he intended for it to escape eventually, but he's an opportunist, and saw it as an opportunity instead of just a risk. A risk for sure, but one that he could potentially use to his advantage.

His reaction says to me "Crap, this wasn't supposed to happen...well, I needed an opportunity to test it anyway, might as well use this one."

Wu has a similarly interesting reaction to iRex's escape. When he learns that it intentionally hid from thermal scanners, his answer is an astonished "Really?" He doesn't sound shocked, but he does sound impressed.

Wu's reaction seems more like "That wasn't supposed to happen...but it's incredible!! It's even more successful than I could have anticipated!"

That really shows the difference between Hoskins and Wu's intentions. Hoskins doesn't want things to get out of hand until it's opportune for him, he wants to keep things relatively under control and for hell to break loose only when he says so. Wu doesn't really care so much what happens to the people outside his lab or what iRex does, exactly, so much as his creations are successes; he is far more invested in the viability of the creature as an intelligent living thing than as a controllable weapon.

Hell, the name he gave it reflects his views on it too. Indominus, "untamable." I doubt Hoskins even knows what Indominus means.

Troodon_formosus wrote:

Hoskins seems a little strained to me when he says "They're gonna learn all kinds of things about their new asset," like he knows that s**t has just hit the fan. I don't think he intended for it to escape eventually, but he's an opportunist, and saw it as an opportunity instead of just a risk. A risk for sure, but one that he could potentially use to his advantage.

His reaction says to me "Crap, this wasn't supposed to happen...well, I needed an opportunity to test it anyway, might as well use this one."

Wu has a similarly interesting reaction to iRex's escape. When he learns that it intentionally hid from thermal scanners, his answer is an astonished "Really?" He doesn't sound shocked, but he does sound impressed.

Wu's reaction seems more like "That wasn't supposed to happen...but it's incredible!! It's even more successful than I could have anticipated!"

That really shows the difference between Hoskins and Wu's intentions. Hoskins doesn't want things to get out of hand until it's opportune for him, he wants to keep things relatively under control and for hell to break loose only when he says so. Wu doesn't really care so much what happens to the people outside his lab or what iRex does, exactly, so much as his creations are successes; he is far more invested in the viability of the creature as an intelligent living thing than as a controllable weapon.

Hell, the name he gave it reflects his views on it too. Indominus, "untamable." I doubt Hoskins even knows what Indominus means.

Coming from Hoskins, of course he didn't know what it meant.

Actually in the novelization JW book it describes that Wu took the news "half startled and half amazed" or something like that.

But, I'm pretty sure he knew about all the abilities I.rex could display, and the "really?" reaction was just faked to cover up that he was lying to Masrani. I always get it as he was pretending  he was surprised/didn't know, but we all know he knew exactly what he was doing.

Heh, I even read a french fanfic that makes a cool backstory (that I even put as one of my headcanons) that Wu visited I.rex paddock before alone and saw her camouflaging.

Troodon_formosus wrote:

Hoskins seems a little strained to me when he says "They're gonna learn all kinds of things about their new asset," like he knows that s**t has just hit the fan. I don't think he intended for it to escape eventually, but he's an opportunist, and saw it as an opportunity instead of just a risk. A risk for sure, but one that he could potentially use to his advantage.

His reaction says to me "Crap, this wasn't supposed to happen...well, I needed an opportunity to test it anyway, might as well use this one."

Wu has a similarly interesting reaction to iRex's escape. When he learns that it intentionally hid from thermal scanners, his answer is an astonished "Really?" He doesn't sound shocked, but he does sound impressed.

Wu's reaction seems more like "That wasn't supposed to happen...but it's incredible!! It's even more successful than I could have anticipated!"

That really shows the difference between Hoskins and Wu's intentions. Hoskins doesn't want things to get out of hand until it's opportune for him, he wants to keep things relatively under control and for hell to break loose only when he says so. Wu doesn't really care so much what happens to the people outside his lab or what iRex does, exactly, so much as his creations are successes; he is far more invested in the viability of the creature as an intelligent living thing than as a controllable weapon.

Hell, the name he gave it reflects his views on it too. Indominus, "untamable." I doubt Hoskins even knows what Indominus means.

This made me laugh ahaha

I think Dr. Wu was only aware of the Indominus Rex being a prototype military weapon, but not necessarily of the plans for what might happen in the park. He was obviously impressed with it's success in regards to his intentions, but I don't think he was fully in on the idea of it escaping and killing people and such, or the Raptors being involved.

What goes on in Vic Hoskins' head is anyone's guess. I think the opportunism suggested is a pretty good way of describing him. He manipulated events that could and would have happened anyhow so they worked in his favor. Even if the Asset Containment Unit had defeated the Indominus Rex, it would've STILL been a notch in Hoskins' belt.

The scene were Hoskins looks over the park as the pterosaurs attack. I think he looks rather shocked, I'm pretty sure he didn't wanted this.

Physalisfresser wrote:

The scene were Hoskins looks over the park as the pterosaurs attack. I think he looks rather shocked, I'm pretty sure he didn't wanted this.

He seemed making a smirk to me, like "It's finally happening"