Is anybody else having second thoughts about this movie?

When the trailer and the behind the scenes videos appeared I was excited. Yes, I still thought that we'd be better off with a movie that took place between JP3 and JW to tie the 2 trilogies together and ensure that the Sorna movies were still hard canon.

But as time went on, my excitement imploded for the following reasons.

1. We have those new dinosaurs that Universal just expects us to believe were in the new park the whole time and that we just never saw them. Sorry, but other then the Brachiosaurus and the Baryonyx, I don't believe that and neither will the GA. And sorry, I can't trust the Dino Protection Group site saying that either. Since Universal tried to pull a fast one via saying that the JW Spinosaurus skeleton was that of the JP3 Spino, I can't trust anything sites say. The exception being when the DPG site saying that the JW Spino skeleton wasn't that of the JP3 Spino, which I see the exception that proves the rule via the fan outrage.


2. The movie starts with a pair of major plot holes: The first is Dr. Wu getting I. rex DNA from the remains of the I. rex, even though he can simply get some from his lab and that he might have gotten extra DNA from the hunk of flesh I. rex tore out in order to claw out her tracking device. And then, the Mosasaurus escapes into the ocean via passageways or something. Now, I'm not against prehistoric marine life interacting with modern marine life, but I'm not for how this starts.

I mean...WAT!


3. The chance that the Sorna movies only get a vague reference. I know that this movie will ensure that the Sorna movies are still hard canon, but I still think that we might get it in a half-hearted way.


4. The black market auction: I get that the Lockwood manor is located in a remote place, but shouldn't Lockwood-and all the other Marsrani/Ingen higher ups for that matter-be under survillance by the FBI, U.S. Marshalls and/or Interpol via what happened at the new park and thus ensure that the auction is impossible to do?

5. This movie not being J.A. Bayona's like we all thought: Sobek said that Universal/Trevorrow-although I say mostly Unviersal since Trevorrow doesn't have enough power to do much by himself-was in charge of most of the movie and the Bayona didn't wield the power we all thought. It just feels like his talent is mostly going to waste here and that's a shame.


It's no question that JW turned off many fans and I feel like Universal will continue on with that. Personally, I was expecting much more from this movie, but recent events have forced me to become far more pessimistic.

Anybody else feeling like this?

I'm kinda with you on this one. While I'm certainly still looking forward to the film, my excitement isn't exactly at a fever pitch.

I'm not super concerned with canonical errors that most of the GA would largely be unaware of anyways. I would rather this film introduce new species at the expense of muddying up the canon then strictly adhere to the canon at the expense of the film.

What does concern me is the general tone of what we've seen so far. Ever since Bayona was named director, we've all been under the assumption that this film would be darker, more suspenseful, and at least somewhat more intelligent then the last movie, but to this point we really haven't seen any proof of this. What we have seen looks pretty over the top and without much in terms of suspense and atmosphere....Especially throughout the scenes in the first half of the film.

The possible logic fails also scare me. Like you said, why would Wu not have the Indominus DNA with him when he left? One would think that saving the Indominus DNA would pretty much be top priority when Wu's lab was being cleared out.

And if the Mosasaur somehow does escape the lagoon via an underwater passageway, that's kinda of a "hole in the Death Star that causes the whole station to explode when someone shoots it" sized error on the part of the people who created the park in the first place.

Also, Justice Smith's scream. Why is this a thing? I know it seems like a relatively small thing to have such a strong opinion on, but things like this could seriously undermine the tone of this film. The Baryonyx scene looks frightening as all hell, until Justice opens his mouth and that high pitched shriek comes out, undermining the whole thing.

Get it guise? It's funny cuz he sounds liekk a gurl!!!!! lololol

And the less said about the apparent rehashed ending that we're getting, the better. I hope there's more to it then what the rumors are saying.

I pray to god that the scream doesn't make the final cut, and I pray to god my skepticism turns out to be unfounded.

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm kinda with you on this one. While I'm certainly still looking forward to the film, my excitement isn't exactly at a fever pitch.

I'm not super concerned with canonical errors that most of the GA would largely be unaware of anyways. I would rather this film introduce new species at the expense of muddying up the canon then strictly adhere to the canon at the expense of the film.

What does concern me is the general tone of what we've seen so far. Ever since Bayona was named director, we've all been under the assumption that this film would be darker, more suspenseful, and at least somewhat more intelligent then the last movie, but to this point we really haven't seen any proof of this. What we have seen looks pretty over the top and without much in terms of suspense and atmosphere....Especially throughout the scenes in the first half of the film.

The possible logic fails also scare me. Like you said, why would Wu not have the Indominus DNA with him when he left? One would think that saving the Indominus DNA would pretty much be top priority when Wu's lab was being cleared out.

And if the Mosasaur somehow does escape the lagoon via an underwater passageway, that's kinda of a "hole in the Death Star that causes the whole station to explode when someone shoots it" sized error on the part of the people who created the park in the first place.

Also, Justice Smith's scream. Why is this a thing? I know it seems like a relatively small thing to have such a strong opinion on, but things like this could seriously undermine the tone of this film. The Baryonyx scene looks frightening as all hell, until Justice opens his mouth and that high pitched shriek comes out, undermining the whole thing.

Get it guise? It's funny cuz he sounds liekk a gurl!!!!! lololol

And the less said about the apparent rehashed ending that we're getting, the better. I hope there's more to it then what the rumors are saying.

I pray to god that the scream doesn't make the final cut, and I pray to god my skepticism turns out to be unfounded.

I feel a lot of negative things that you didn’t even cover, but your post covers enough of my general thoughts to be honest. I don’t want to go super negative because I already had a rant in the other thread. And because I’m still basing everything on trailers and leaks. For all I know we could be dead wrong. I hope we are. But my faith continues to fade.

If the Super Bowl stuff is disappointing I believe I’m gonna place my expectations a lot lower than a few months ago.

Also @Rhedosaurus

Spoiler:

I'm still excited, but I think you guys should keep something in mind when it comes to certain decisions: it's all about money!!!.
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Believe me, I'd love to see some of the canonical dinosaurs like Proceratosaurus, Metriacanthosaurus (which was in an earlier draft it appears), and others, but it's very easy to understand why it was replaced by a more famous (and similar) dino in this case (Allo).

Thankfully Mattel will be releasing all of the canonical dinos, except Edmonto, Brachio and Apato (because Uni doesn't think herbivores like them sell).

The new dinos can also be explained as new attractions not yet open to the public. Maybe they would have opened along with the Indominus, who knows? It's not that much of a big deal in this case.

It's also important to note that some of them are there because FANS won't stop asking for the same dinos over and over again (Brachio and Compies in this case).
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Sorna was supposed to be in the movie originally and even had one or two scenes set there. While I do think this would've been cool, the GP would have been very confused specially because both islands look the same (wait, are there two islands with dinosaurs?)
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As for the auction stuff: lots of powerful people are part of it, so it can easily explains how they're doing it. Corruption.
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Mosa scaping is a rumor (for now), but I think it's likely.

IMO the JW films are mostly for general audiences. I don't mind that as while I'm a hardcore fan I don't ask for much. If it's bombastic then fine it'll entertain me. That's just my view on the JW films.

I'm still very excited for it.

And do we know if Wu had other Indominus DNA when he left Nublar? We only know he took DNA with him but the film didn't clarify if it was more Indominus DNA. It could've been DNA for other hybrids like Stegoceratops.

I do really understand my fellow fans' concerns regarding the levels of bombast or lack of subtlety in these future Jurassic films, but I don't feel ready to write the film off before seeing it. I went into Jurassic World with a lot of concerns whilst not necessarily lowering my expectations to "dumb blockbuster" levels. One of my overriding memories of the YouTube reactions of the Fallen Kingdom trailer was watching hardcore JP fan Perri Nemiroff of Collider gradually lose faith in the film, and her smile fading from her face.

While I am concerned for the content and quality of the film, I have a feeling that Justice's scream will either get axed from the film like the rather tasteless deleted scene with Bryce and the dinosaur dung in the previous film. I doubt he'd just stand there and scream like that if there was a ten foot Baryonyx lunging towards him and Claire. I remember an interview where Bayona said that Fallen Kingdom would not be as dark as his previous works and would be comparatively more "fun" than the likes of A Monster Calls or The Orphanage. The question is how will be be able to organically instill a sense of thrills, adventure and yes even fun in the film on account of his own directing skills without it feeling like it's being forced by the studio's higher ups or influence from Trevorrow. Even the darkest film in the series so far, The Lost World, is for me at least a very fun film in an oldschool kind of way, not like today where it feels like virtually every movie tries to be a superhero film.

i am not having any second thoughts on the movie, i am still excited for it.

But regarding the new dinos, i dont see it as any kind of plot hole. i mean we never saw the other Dinosaurs that were in Nublar during the 1993 incident, but they were there.

Sobek wrote:

I'm still excited, but I think you guys should keep something in mind when it comes to certain decisions: it's all about money!!!.
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Believe me, I'd love to see some of the canonical dinosaurs like Proceratosaurus, Metriacanthosaurus (which was in an earlier draft it appears), and others, but it's very easy to understand why it was replaced by a more famous (and similar) dino in this case (Allo).

Thankfully Mattel will be releasing all of the canonical dinos, except Edmonto, Brachio and Apato (because Uni doesn't think herbivores like them sell).

The new dinos can also be explained as new attractions not yet open to the public. Maybe they would have opened along with the Indominus, who knows? It's not that much of a big deal in this case.

It's also important to note that some of them are there because FANS won't stop asking for the same dinos over and over again (Brachio and Compies in this case).
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Sorna was supposed to be in the movie originally and even had one or two scenes set there. While I do think this would've been cool, the GP would have been very confused specially because both islands look the same (wait, are there two islands with dinosaurs?)
--

As for the auction stuff: lots of powerful people are part of it, so it can easily explains how they're doing it. Corruption.
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Mosa scaping is a rumor (for now), but I think it's likely.

Can you tell me why Universal won’t listen to requests for a Dilophosaurus? As far as fans wanting it?

I think that people are worrying a bit too much. There is this pendulum effect going on, where something positive, everyone gets hyped, but something that leaves people unsure, suddenly, the film is being received in a completely opposite manner.

There's no middle ground. Seeing the reactions people had of The Last Jedi, it's always best to leave expectations/head canons at the door.

Check your hype at the door.

I think it's too soon to be throwing around generalizations, I mean, we haven't even seen the film yet.

We only have ~2.5 minutes of a two hour movie. And (aside from the BTS footage) all of it is the first half of the film.

And we need to remember, this is a PG-13 movie, it can only be so dark.

And while I haven't seen A Monster Calls, or The Orphanage, I do own The Impossible, and the difference, is The Impossible is a fictionalized account of a real event.

Jurassic Park is a science-fiction adventure thriller.

Now I haven't really gotten into the leaks, all I know, is things that have been known for a while now, (Indoraptor, Lockwood Manor, opening scene featuring the lagoon at night)

So, unless something major has been leaked that is making a cause for concern, this is how I currently feel.

Some other issues are bordering on nitpick (new dinosaurs, Wu going back for I. rex DNA (it is obvious he was planning on keeping the lab up and running, but he was pretty much forced off the island (hence him asking where Hoskins was, and whether the "deal was still intact". Wu was planning on staying, potentially)

I mean, we are nearing two months since the official trailer and another four and a half till the film's release, I think we just need to take a step back and not get ahead of ourselves.

I was never that thrilled to see it in the first place. Ever since I read that Jurassic World was going to more or less ignore The Lost World and Jurassic Park 3 I lost a lot of interest in the franchise going forward. I am sorry but that line of thought just screams that all Universal knows (or cares) about this franchise is that they believe that myth that everybody loves the nostalgia of the original Jurassic Park but nobody cares for TLW or JP3 so they have to cash in on that.

And all the proof you need is in how both Jurassic World and Fallen Kingdom are filled with nostalgia from the original JP while having almost nothing in them that even hints at anything from TLW and JP3.

And on top of that there is the whole flip flop on the JP3 Spinosaurus. First the Jurassic World script says it was a fake skeleton, then the JW Instagram says that skeleton is the JP3 Spino (despite a different crest) and now there appears to be a tie in website that is more or less saying that the JP3 Spino could be an experiment by Wu?

The Jurassic franchise has become what Star Wars is for Disney now. They do not care for it in the same way that George Lucas did, they only see it as a cash cow. Throw in your generic Jurassic movie out there because they make a lot of money due to brand name recognition and we are out.

BarrytheOnyx wrote:

The question is how will be be able to organically instill a sense of thrills, adventure and yes even fun in the film on account of his own directing skills without it feeling like it's being forced by the studio's higher ups or influence from Trevorrow. Even the darkest film in the series so far, The Lost World, is for me at least a very fun film in an oldschool kind of way, not like today where it feels like virtually every movie tries to be a superhero film.

But isn't that under the assumption that Trevorrow really has any true power and isn't a figurehead? By now, it's clear that he had barely any power during the making of the first JW and while he might have some more input, I honestly think that things will be the status quo in terms of him wielding any major amount of influence.

Sobek wrote:

It's also important to note that some of them are there because FANS won't stop asking for the same dinos over and over again (Brachio and Compies in this case).
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Sorna was supposed to be in the movie originally and even had one or two scenes set there. While I do think this would've been cool, the GP would have been very confused specially because both islands look the same (wait, are there two islands with dinosaurs?)

1. If anything, the fans are asking for the one and done dinos more than anything. 

2. Was it even confirmed that Sorna was supposed to be looked at?

Welp, not anymore. That Superbowl trailer was goddamn spectacular. Kicked the shit out of the first trailer.

After tonight? Nope. I am all in basically and for the first time in a while my hype is really ramped up. No expectations other than I want a good story. I'm absolutely sure I'll be given that when it comes time

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

Welp, not anymore. That Superbowl trailer was goddamn spectacular. Kicked the shit out of the first trailer.

TyrannosaurTJ wrote:

After tonight? Nope. I am all in basically and for the first time in a while my hype is really ramped up. No expectations other than I want a good story. I'm absolutely sure I'll be given that when it comes time

I saw that same trailer and while it was MUCH better then the first one, it takes far more then that to bring me back or erase all my doubts. Sorry, but learning that J.A. Bayona didn't have as much power/influence really wiped out whatever was left of my excitement. One trailer that's much better then the first doesn't wipe out any of my fears.

I dunno, I think the first shot of the trailer just oozes Bayona.

Nah. Even the first trailer couldn't get rid of my excitement. And the Super Bowl trailer shows a much more representative look on the film, which is great.

Saw the second trailer, like with the first trailer, I still get a vibe that Fallen Kingdom will be very similar to Jurassic World in terms of formula. Plenty of action and humor like your average Marvelesque summer blockbuster flick with more than a few nods to the original Jurassic Park.

And I am not in any way saying that equals "bad" much less "terrible". But that is the result of Universal and the way they handle this franchise as just another cash cow.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

I saw that same trailer and while it was MUCH better then the first one, it takes far more then that to bring me back or erase all my doubts. Sorry, but learning that J.A. Bayona didn't have as much power/influence really wiped out whatever was left of my excitement. One trailer that's much better then the first doesn't wipe out any of my fears.

While it may be true, you're antagonizing yourself over a rumor at this point and you haven't even seen the film to ultimately know for sure.Actually, outside of you mentioning it, this is the first time I've heard anything regarding Bayona's efforts and talent being squandered away. It may be true, but it is a rumor and may not be true just as well. I would treat it as an unsubstantiated rumor and not antagonize myself over it until you see the film in theaters (or however you intend) and formed your own thoughts/feelings on the matter.

Outside of this rumor though and more in a broaden sense is that JW did help me realize that there is still potential there. My main source of doubt against Trevorrow and Universal was a myriad of reasons from the handling of JP3, to how I felt about Safety Not Guaranteed as it was his only major film under his belt. JW isn't nearly as terrible as I thought it could be and frankly it drummed up a measure of positivity for me where my criticisms are just merely focused on the cliche elements. Unfortunately JW is bogged down with cliche elements due to the Trevorrow/Connolly collaboration of the script and that's something I hope can be tempered going forward. That's not to say some of those don't work, because some do in fact "work". It's just easier to pick at and focus on than it is to acknowledge the positives the film has brought to the table. Online fandoms have more or less become the place where people are more focused on complaining about things and getting mad over different opinions though. I wish we could go back to how the Internet of the '90s were fandom embraced everybody instead of an ideal of an "elite few" that thinks a particular way as it does now.

I’ll say this once, and i’ll Keep saying this til the cows come home: absolutely do I agree with TyrannosaurTJ. You can’t know for sure what u think about this upcoming movie until you actually watch it. Therefore, i’m not worried about this artwork one bit, and u probably shouldn’t be worried either. Now, I myself worry about the critical reception of JWFK though. Given that today’s critiques like to hammer films based on their cons and not keep on the bright side of films & television, there’s a good chance that at least one critique will find something about the film that doesn’t work & use that as an excuse to bring down JWFK to B movie standards. Sure it happens for all films, but it doesn’t help that superhero films & SW is the center of the universe for such critiques who refuse to think outside the “box” office. JWFK is a chance to try something new after all. Now that I mention it, i’d love to take part in a 90s internet conversation, where everyone embraces each other. Leave it to the GA to take computers & iPhones in the wrong direction.

Second thoughts? Heavens no! I'm more and more excited with every additional bit of marketing!

I'm certainly willing to forgive minor lapses in the continuity if it means we're going to get another awesome viral marketing campaign. Checking the JW and Masrani pages every day for new updates was honestly one of the highlights of my 2015.

Tyrant Lizard wrote:

I'm certainly willing to forgive minor lapses in the continuity if it means we're going to get another awesome viral marketing campaign. Checking the JW and Masrani pages every day for new updates was honestly one of the highlights of my 2015.

I agree with this.

Fans also have to remember that at the end of the day, this is a film franchise about dinosaurs chasing people.

There is only so much you can do with that.

That's why some of us are not exactly expecting a breakthrough masterpiece. It is unrealistic to expect Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom to be a breakthrough masterpiece unless this movie has some huge surprises in it that really change the game. (And we have seen when a well established franchise tries to change too much it is more often than not a miss rather than a hit like The Last Jedi). In fact, when Jurassic World 2 was first announced, many fans were very worried that it woudn't turn into "Jurassic War". What else is there to do? Another dinosaurs escape movie.

That in addition to how little Universal is aware of the canon is why I am not thrilled about JWFK, and why I am a little surprised that some are expecting it to be something special that breaks new ground.

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

Fans also have to remember that at the end of the day, this is a film franchise about dinosaurs chasing people.

Sure, if you want to wittle it down to that. I mean, I guess you could just as easily dismiss The Godfather as a movie about cops and robbers, or Star Wars as a franchise about laser sword fights.

The JP movies do have a theme of humans being arrogant with nature but all of the films end up with dinosaurs chasing humans.

It is a bit of a one trick pony. But I am not saying thst in a bad way.

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

The JP movies do have a theme of humans being arrogant with nature but all of the films end up with dinosaurs chasing humans.

It is a bit of a one trick pony. But I am not saying thst in a bad way.

I think the thing CT is trying to say here is that you are grossly over-simplifying what the JP movies are specifically and taking them to base construct of more or less being monster films where the monster chases people and they run. CT was pointing out how other movies like Godfather and Star Wars could ultimately have the same thing done to in the end to them as well.

Outside, all movies can and are eventually broken down to that level in their baseness, but the problem is when the powers that be are doing that and not providing a worthwhile or compelling plot. JW, while a safe 'soft-reboot" did a good job (for me at least) of restoring a small amount of faith for the direction of the series. So I feel that FK is attempting to spice things up with a more horror/action adventure direction here now. So it's going to focus on that chase commonality, but it is going to where and how the Crichton novels were when they were published. Going back to the source material helps refine the direction things were going.

There is also another reason why I'm having second thoughts about this movie. I just don't think that it's not the movie we need at this moment. There are just so many possibilities that this franchise could have taken.

1. Biosyn or some other company making dinosaurs in secret labs located in the jungles of Africa, South America, and parts of Asia (Papua New Guinea) where dinosaurs have been sighted and reported. Mokele-Mbembe being the most famous of these cryptosaurs.

2. A movie that takes place between JP3 and JW to connect the two trilogies better.

3. A movie that takes place on one of the other islands with new dinosaurs we haven't seen: Pentaceratops, a feathered Anzu population, an Archaeopterx population, Pectinodon which used to be known as Troodon (Troodon isn't considered a valid species anymore, but Pectinodon was reinstated in 2013. So according to the rules of science, all Troodon fossils found in the same fossil formations as T. rex, Triceratops, Edmontosaurus, and other Late Cretaceous dinosaurs now belong to Pectinodon.), Deinocheirus, Appalachiosaurus, and so much more.


As a side note: In fairness, I can also make this argument for JP3 as well. Since that movie was made for the sake of a trilogy with no real soul in it.


Yet, here we are getting a movie that many people, even the GA, are going to consider a semi-remake of The Lost World. Some of us have seen this movie get referred to as 'Jurassic World: The Lost Park' and at this point, it's hard for me to blame those people. People are far more knowledgeable about movies and their productions then they were 20-25 years ago and the internet has grown into a monster at this point. Throw in just how dumb the beginning of this movie will be, and I don't think that the GA can be counted on as much like they were for the first JW movie.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

People are far more knowledgeable about movies and their productions then they were 20-25 years ago and the internet has grown into a monster at this point.

If these people think this film is going to be remake of TLW, then I wouldn't be giving the general audience as much credit as you are.

And again, we have no idea what the context is behind the opening scene is. If something happened the helicopter transporting Wu's research, then all of the sudden the scene makes a lot more sense.

TyrannosaurTJ wrote:

#TRexSpinorematch wrote:

The JP movies do have a theme of humans being arrogant with nature but all of the films end up with dinosaurs chasing humans.

It is a bit of a one trick pony. But I am not saying thst in a bad way.

I think the thing CT is trying to say here is that you are grossly over-simplifying what the JP movies are specifically and taking them to base construct of more or less being monster films where the monster chases people and they run. CT was pointing out how other movies like Godfather and Star Wars could ultimately have the same thing done to in the end to them as well.

Outside, all movies can and are eventually broken down to that level in their baseness, but the problem is when the powers that be are doing that and not providing a worthwhile or compelling plot. JW, while a safe 'soft-reboot" did a good job (for me at least) of restoring a small amount of faith for the direction of the series. So I feel that FK is attempting to spice things up with a more horror/action adventure direction here now. So it's going to focus on that chase commonality, but it is going to where and how the Crichton novels were when they were published. Going back to the source material helps refine the direction things were going.

I know the original goal of the first book and movie was the message of man not being in control of nature and trying to toy with it by trying to work with dinosaurs.

However, the monster movie element is still a huge part of the series DNA. And my point is, there is only so much you can do with the theme of man trying to control dinosaurs and having it backfire. More so when you know that many fans seem to not like the idea of a Jurassic War or the idea of having ice age creatures on the series.