Whoever wins, we lose: Aliens and Predator (also Prometheus and stuff)

Promo-prologue-thing. I don't really understand why they can't just put exposition scene in the movie instead of separate thing like this. I guess if the film is supposed to serve as another soft reboot they don't want too much rewinding, but still

I watched Alien vs Predator again today, and I personally don't get the hate for this film. Now, I realize what it couldve been, a future story, with Colonel Marines and the two species at odds. Still, I figured it could've been worse (and AvP:R by all accounts was worse. When you could see what happening.). The fights are still a lot of fun to watch.

It's bad to me because all of the characters are boring cardboard cutouts, the fights are meaningless video game shlock, there is no tension (especially from the Predator side) and the setting doesn't really make much sense. That being said, at least it doesn't raise billion continuity/canon issues like Requiem does, and isn't as laughably dumb as that joke of a film ended up being. Also it's nice to see Lance Henriksen in anything, even if the role was what it was. There are also some little trivial bits here and there that were okay in the first half.

As much as I don't like those two films though, I think I would rather still want to have AVP3 coming up than Alien Covenant (or the Predator reboot). Because at least it -likely- wouldn't be just another attempt at doing the same exact thing as before. Now obviously we haven't seen Covenant yet, but all the trailers and clips they've shown are making it look like a soft reboot.

TheDreamMaster wrote:

I watched Alien vs Predator again today, and I personally don't get the hate for this film. Now, I realize what it couldve been, a future story, with Colonel Marines and the two species at odds. Still, I figured it could've been worse (and AvP:R by all accounts was worse. When you could see what happening.). The fights are still a lot of fun to watch.

The PredAlien was the best thing about Requiem.

I think the only thing I liked about Requiem was at the beginning when that hunter guy and his boy get face hugged and killed pretty much instantly without remorse or delay. I mean, we've had kids killed before (Alien 3 + off Aliens) but not really on screen. Also there's something creepy about the alien community starting to infiltrate your neighborhood woods.

But other than that it was pure crap.

It looks like the new Predator will be 7 feet tall.

Ridley Scott says that Neil Blomkamp's Alien 5, won't ever be shown.

Quote: wrote:

I think he will never see the light. There was never a scenario, just an idea that evolved into a pitch of ten pages, I had to participate as a producer but it did not go any further because the Fox decided that She did not want to do it. I had already done Prometheus and worked on Covenant.

I get that he's being protective with the series ever since it took a downward turn via Alien 3, but I really think that he's taking things a bit too far.

We pretty much knew this, but it's official now.

Neil Blomkamps' planned Alien project is dead.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

We pretty much knew this, but it's official now.

Neil Blomkamps' planned Alien project is dead.

Expected but disappointed:(

Troyal1 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

We pretty much knew this, but it's official now.

Neil Blomkamps' planned Alien project is dead.

Expected but disappointed:(

It makes you wonder if Scott will have to go back on that if this movie and whatever else he comes out with isn't well received.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

We pretty much knew this, but it's official now.

Neil Blomkamps' planned Alien project is dead.

Expected but disappointed:(

It makes you wonder if Scott will have to go back on that if this movie and whatever else he comes out with isn't well received.

Possibly. And I don't mean to sound like a jerk but he says 4 more right? He's getting up in age.... but then so are the original cast

Despite earlier comments, I honestly can't say if Blomkamp's Alien would've been what we all hoped for. Ignoring any comment Scott made, because he seems to be a bit more bitter on than subject than needed, Blomkamp's known ideas and concept art was very heavy on fan pandering. Lord knows if people can hate Star Wars Rogue One for "pandering too much" as someone on another forum told me, people could hate this for it. Not to mention I believe Blomkamp's heart is in the right place, but after District 9 his films have been...not good.

Now I'm going to be honest, I love Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3. Less said about A:R the better, but I do also enjoy the first AvP film too. I never saw Prometheus, still haven't, so I'm not sure what to expect out of Covenant. If it ends up working, maybe Scott will do some more interesting things, but if it's received as badly as I hear the previous film was, maybe he should get off his high horse a little bit.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

It makes you wonder if Scott will have to go back on that if this movie and whatever else he comes out with isn't well received.

But there already hasn't been universally well received Alien movie since 1986.

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

It makes you wonder if Scott will have to go back on that if this movie and whatever else he comes out with isn't well received.

But there already hasn't been universally well received Alien movie since 1986.

From what I've heard, if it wasn't for Fox meddling, then Alien 3 would have been universally/mostly universally received. The directors cut or something like that is much better then the theatrical version.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

It makes you wonder if Scott will have to go back on that if this movie and whatever else he comes out with isn't well received.

But there already hasn't been universally well received Alien movie since 1986.

From what I've heard, if it wasn't for Fox meddling, then Alien 3 would have been universally/mostly universally received. The directors cut or something like that is much better then the theatrical version.

The amount of meddling and rewrites in that film make JP3 production seem like a walk in the park (get it? ha-ha) in comparison. There was ever, never chance for that film to succeed after the initial plans got scrapped.

Also it's not a directors cut, as Fincher absolutely loathes the film and never wants to speak of it.

I dislike that assembly/extended version as there's a LOT of boring time wasting and weird decisions. The alien changed of being born out of ox is infinitely less interesting and cruelsome than out of dog, religious references or not. And also that makes no sense with the body shape and movements of the alien.

The only thing I did like about the assembly/extended cut was Charles Dance finding Ripley from that beach area, and more of him in general. You know because other than Ripley and Bishop, Charles's character Clemens is the only actually interesting person in the film. So of course he gets killed almost instantly...

The theatrical cut is 'fine". I always really liked the first act, up until Clemens gets killed and when it transforms into lame slasher film. From there I'm always utterly bored until the last 10 mins or so, when Lance Henriksen and the company show up. That is the interesting stuff, not the rehash from the first film or the boring action.

Anyway the background drama and documentaries about the film are infinitely more interesting than the final product. Empire magazine has made great in depth articles about this clusterf*ck, too

Seriously, has there ever been a movie with this many trailers, clips and other promo material constantly released prior to release? Not a moments breath. I mean, kudos to the marketing team I guess, but it's just so much.

Also, what's up with this music that starts half way through, someone really said "this fits the Alien universe"?  

http://popculture.com/movies/2017/05/05/alien-covenant-ridley-scott-sequel-to-original-next-film/

Takes place between alien and aliens. I just don't even.....

Well if that doesn't get you jumping up and down with excitement, I don't know what will!


...

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?  

Blandness. Okay ish blandness that's... bland. And bizarrely terrible old man prosthetic makeup on Weyland. Which probably cost way more to put on Guy Pearce's face even for one day than just hiring Lance Henriksen would have been anyway lol

Anyhow yes I love Aliens almost as much as I do Jurassic Park, so Scott swiping his arse with it would be disgrace. But at the same time, the franchise isn't exactly coherent anyways, and in todays world of rebooting... ehhhhhhh it's almost expected. Also, Scott possibly retconning Aliens wouldn't be any worse than the now-dead Alien 5 retconning Alien 3 and Resurrection would have been, even if those two aren't in the same league as Aliens at all. It's the principle, both are equally bad ideas to go forward

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?  

Same boat as you. Never seen it but I'm going to force myself before covenant.

Also I think it's funny how I'm seeing on some forums, people praising the idea of Aliens being glossed over. And these were the same people screaming about alien 3 and 4 being disregarded lol.

I think those people are seeing Ridley Scott as some kind of god who's here to save the franchise with his original passionate vision

Youtube comments on all of these trailers and clips seem to also point out to this

Mistral wrote:

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?  

Blandness. Okay ish blandness that's... bland. And bizarrely terrible old man prosthetic makeup on Weyland. Which probably cost way more to put on Guy Pearce's face even for one day than just hiring Lance Henriksen would have been anyway lol

Anyhow yes I love Aliens almost as much as I do Jurassic Park, so Scott swiping his arse with it would be disgrace. But at the same time, the franchise isn't exactly coherent anyways, and in todays world of rebooting... ehhhhhhh it's almost expected. Also, Scott possibly retconning Aliens wouldn't be any worse than the now-dead Alien 5 retconning Alien 3 and Resurrection would have been, even if those two aren't in the same league as Aliens at all. It's the principle, both are equally bad ideas to go forward

See I'll admit I'm weird about it, but no stranger to retcons in film. Halloween H20 completely ignores 4-6 (and 3 is a different thing altogether), but I guess that doesn't bother me because it leaves the best films , the original and Halloween II, in its continuity. Throwing Aliens out would bother me. Yes it exists, and it's not like it's being erased from existence, but it feels so disrespectful to basically everyone. I mean at least the Halloween remakes shot all over their continuity (....not before Resirrection killed the original franchise though.).

I don't mind as much if there are no references to previous movies, but what I do not like are contradictions. Prometheus, and even to extent the crappy AVPs didn't contradict anything, not really. Alright with Requiem you could argue that the stupid nuking of the town and all those things running free everywhere in the age of social media etc made billion contradictions possible, but there are excuses for it.

Nerdist gives Covenant 3½ stars.
http://nerdist.com/alien-covenant-review-ridley-scott-michael-fassbender/

But keep in mind these are the same people who gave the Blair Witch reboot four and half stars and hyped it to heaven

I guess this is mildly positive remark, that it's not just direct remake-reboot of alien:

But Covenant seems far less interested in chest bursts and face hugs than it does in connecting the dots of the Xenomorph’s origin story and, more still, in diving deep into the nature and worth of a remarkably fallible humankind. This may all sound like bad news to someone seeking a revival of the terror first experienced aboard the Nostromo. But with different things on its mind, Covenant has different strengths. Its nuanced navigation of the jagged dynamics among the ship’s crew, composed entirely of married couples, bring a new color to the series’ human element. Woven into this side of the equation are conflicts of priority, loyalty, and respect; actually, Alien purists may appreciate that the gender divide plays as substantial a role here as the class divide does in the original.

But at the same time it sounds like repeat of Prometheus again. Mixed in with Alien

Troyal1 wrote:

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?

Same boat as you. Never seen it but I'm going to force myself before covenant.

Also I think it's funny how I'm seeing on some forums, people praising the idea of Aliens being glossed over. And these were the same people screaming about alien 3 and 4 being disregarded lol.

Mistral wrote:

I think those people are seeing Ridley Scott as some kind of god who's here to save the franchise with his original passionate vision.

But Aliens is regarded as not only one of the best sequels of all time, but even better then the first by many people. I don't think he can get away with disregarding that. Alien 3 and Alien 4, maybe. AVP twin movie set, yes. But not Aliens. I'm not going to blame Scott for being so protective of the series, considering what Fox did to it since Alien 3. But I think that this is a case of the right man being in the right place at the wrong time. Again, I'm giving Fox most of the blame, but I think that Scott may have lost his touch with this to some degree.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?  

Same boat as you. Never seen it but I'm going to force myself before covenant.

Also I think it's funny how I'm seeing on some forums, people praising the idea of Aliens being glossed over. And these were the same people screaming about alien 3 and 4 being disregarded lol.

Mistral wrote:

I think those people are seeing Ridley Scott as some kind of god who's here to save the franchise with his original passionate vision.

But Aliens is regarded as not only one of the best sequels of all time, but even better then the first by many people. I don't think he can get away with disregarding that. Alien 3 and Alien 4, maybe. AVP twin movie set, yes. But not Aliens. I'm not going to blame Scott for being so protective of the series, considering what Fox did to it since Alien 3. But I think that this is a case of the right man being in the right place at the wrong time. Again, I'm giving Fox most of the blame, but I think that Scott may have lost his touch with this to some degree.  

There's always been a vocal minority that has disliked Aliens for it's action orientated nature, as well as that the creatures became supposedly so weak and less intimidating than in the original. You know, because they could be shot down easily or driven over with ease, which apparently contradicts the 'perfect organism' Ash and the company refer it as in the original film.

This is something I've always thought as ridiculous, as the situation and environment in the film is entirely different than on some huge commercial cargo ship with unarmed civilians. Just because the aliens aren't immortal gods doesn't mean they can't be perfect organisms otherwise either. There are many aspects of perfection.

And as for it being horror-influenced scifi action instead of pure scifi horror... please. In my book Aliens is not only the greatest sequel of all time (even better than Empire) but also one of the greatest things ever put together by mankind on screen because it actually took chances and didn't play safe. It's entirely different genre and it works. But it is what it is... people are different. There are always gonna be groups that dislike when follow-up product is not the same thing as before, but radically turns gears towards something else. Now in the case of Aliens most people still love it of course, and it's not the same thing as with the other sequels where the opinions are more split up (especially Alien 3), but regardless, the minority is there.

With Scott, I personally think he's either going senile, or desperately trying to make his personal vision something to be remembered about, regardless of consequences. And the studio is going to green-light everything he says because of his A) name B) material is safe and rebootish for marketing

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?  

Same boat as you. Never seen it but I'm going to force myself before covenant.

Also I think it's funny how I'm seeing on some forums, people praising the idea of Aliens being glossed over. And these were the same people screaming about alien 3 and 4 being disregarded lol.

Mistral wrote:

I think those people are seeing Ridley Scott as some kind of god who's here to save the franchise with his original passionate vision.

But Aliens is regarded as not only one of the best sequels of all time, but even better then the first by many people. I don't think he can get away with disregarding that. Alien 3 and Alien 4, maybe. AVP twin movie set, yes. But not Aliens. I'm not going to blame Scott for being so protective of the series, considering what Fox did to it since Alien 3. But I think that this is a case of the right man being in the right place at the wrong time. Again, I'm giving Fox most of the blame, but I think that Scott may have lost his touch with this to some degree.  

There's always been a vocal minority that has disliked Aliens for it's action orientated nature, as well as that the creatures became supposedly so weak and less intimidating than in the original. You know, because they could be shot down easily or driven over with ease, which apparently contradicts the 'perfect organism' Ash and the company refer it as in the original film.

This is something I've always thought as ridiculous, as the situation and environment in the film is entirely different than on some huge commercial cargo ship with unarmed civilians. Just because the aliens aren't immortal gods doesn't mean they can't be perfect organisms otherwise either. There are many aspects of perfection.

And as for it being horror-influenced scifi action instead of pure scifi horror... please. In my book Aliens is not only the greatest sequel of all time (even better than Empire) but also one of the greatest things ever put together by mankind on screen because it actually took chances and didn't play safe. It's entirely different genre and it works. But it is what it is... people are different. There are always gonna be groups that dislike when follow-up product is not the same thing as before, but radically turns gears towards something else. Now in the case of Aliens most people still love it of course, and it's not the same thing as with the other sequels where the opinions are more split up (especially Alien 3), but regardless, the minority is there.

With Scott, I personally think he's either going senile, or desperately trying to make his personal vision something to be remembered about, regardless of consequences. And the studio is going to green-light everything he says because of his A) name B) material is safe and rebootish for marketing

It also helped that Aliens had James Cameron as the director. He can make risks and turn them into calculated risks that have a lot of common sense. Most other directors don't have that skill. I just think that Fox is letting Scott do his thing because they have no leg to stand on considering how they ran the franchise into the ground since Alien 3. "You win, Scott. We won't fight you because we can't." I'm of the mindset that it's the second choice with Scott, his personal vision. But again, times have changed too much.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

Troyal1 wrote:

TheDreamMaster wrote:

So he could disregard Aliens? Screw that, I love Alien but I find Aliens to be the superior film, and I like it's Xenomorphs slightly better than the "Big Chap" version from the original film.

On another note....I'm kind of a completionist when it comes to series I watch, so I end up owning and seeing even the bad films. I finally broke down and bought Prometheus. I haven't seen it, but I want to watch it before Covenant comes out. Anyone care to tell me what I'm in for?  

Same boat as you. Never seen it but I'm going to force myself before covenant.

Also I think it's funny how I'm seeing on some forums, people praising the idea of Aliens being glossed over. And these were the same people screaming about alien 3 and 4 being disregarded lol.

Mistral wrote:

I think those people are seeing Ridley Scott as some kind of god who's here to save the franchise with his original passionate vision.

But Aliens is regarded as not only one of the best sequels of all time, but even better then the first by many people. I don't think he can get away with disregarding that. Alien 3 and Alien 4, maybe. AVP twin movie set, yes. But not Aliens. I'm not going to blame Scott for being so protective of the series, considering what Fox did to it since Alien 3. But I think that this is a case of the right man being in the right place at the wrong time. Again, I'm giving Fox most of the blame, but I think that Scott may have lost his touch with this to some degree.  

While I firmly believe that Aliens is one of the best sequels of all time(as do many others). I can see some small part of the fan base liking Aliens being thrown away. I don't think Scott can do it... I hope not.

But I do understand them in some sense. Some of the die hards of the original that I know personally, hated that Alien took an action route for the series in its sequel. And I can see their point in a sense. They felt it took away from the mystery, tension claustrophobic nature of the original too much. If "The Thing" got a sequel that was amazing yet an action film, would i as a huge fan of the original be okay with it? I'm not sure. 

Now I think that Aliens is cool in that regard because I feel it does what few sequels ever do. I felt it takes what Alien has and builds on it to an extremely large degree. And that's why I was always fine with it being so different.

Again I know I'm talking about a very small group but they do exist.

You know it's funny, I didn't actually see these films until I was about 14 or 15, but at the very first time I saw them I thought Aliens was actually million times more scary and suspenseful than the first one. I still really liked the first one, but Aliens was not only superior in every way as well as going to different genre altogether, but also beat the first one in horror aspect. In my opinion that is. All the way from when they first land on the planet, to the moment it all goes tot hell. After that, it's admittedly more action and fun than suspenseful, but the change of pace is appreciate.

Btw not many people like the special edition, but I actually enjoyed seen the colonists alive. Because all those families and kids and smiling faces... it's just so horrid to think they'd all be either slaughtered or morphed into hosts.