Things Alien: Covenant did that I wish JW had done

I saw Alien: Covenant last night. I personally loved it. Amazing to see Ridley Scott in charge of the xenomorphs on screen again after nearly 40 years. I personally love and grew up with both the Alien and JP franchises, and there were some things that Ridley Scott did with Alien: Covenant that I wish Trevorrow had done with JW. For example:

-Introduced the xenomorphs after a lot of build-up
-Paying tribute to the original Alien without all the *wink wink, remember this scene?" to the audience
-Fresh, new, original story that beautifully ties into the original
-Dark, terrifying scenes (including one where a never before seen creature is on the loose inside the lander, with terrified, bloody crew members shooting at it in desperation)
-Gave me that feeling of "Omg this is insane!" feeling during at least three very intense scenes. In JW's defence it gave me that feeling during the motorcycle chase and indominus breaking into the aviary
-Creatures weren't overused so they didn't lose their mystique (like the Raptors did in JW)
-Dark, terrifying atmosphere (among other things you see an alien climbing up a wall at night, in total silence while the wind is making the trees in the background move)

I feel confident that JW2 under J.A. Bayona's direction will include a lot of these things.

You do know that you're in the minority when it comes to fans liking that movie, right? If you go one the Alien and Predator thread, a many people don't like it and even those that do see it's big flaws. Not only did it lose it's first place status to GOTG Vol. 2 the Monday after the weekend, but from what I'm seeing, it's going to go down to 4th place.

I think you've misunderstood my post completely. I was listing things that I liked about the movie that I feel JW lacks. I personally liked the movie a lot, and I'm a fan. I love Alien. This thread is not about how it does at the Box Office or what other fans think of it. I couldn't care less about that.

P.S., I'm always glad to be in the minority, I dislike followers.

It's not that. I'm just saying that it might not be a good idea to compare a movie that a large part of the fanbase doesn't like to something that hasn't come out yet.

But I was comparing it to JW, not JW2. I think JW2 will include a lot of these elements I liked about Alien: Covenant that I didn't see in JW. Such as surprising turn of events, dark atmosphere etc, terrifying scenes etc.

How about a "Things Jurassic World did that I wish Alien: Covenant had done" thread?

As much as I was bored with it, I didn't despise it like I do JW. But that's probably not because of film's own merit, but because I have much stronger love for JP than for Alien (although admittedly I'd rank Cameron's sequel almost to the level of JP, very almost). Plus we've had plenty of garbage Alien/Predator themed films before already, so it was just another of those. Also Scott's made a lot of trash recently.

So to summarize, the less personal emotion you have for the success of the product  the less you care if the film is a failure. I also have to say though, that if Covenant was celebrated as awesome classic by everyone but me, I might hate it more, but as it stands there's not much more reason to go on bitching about it... It's just meh, to be forgotten.

However, if there is actually something positive comparison to make,  I would say that both Fassbender's sole performance and (partly) the character's writing exceed any level of acting / character writing in JW.

Also although there was unecessary fanservice, particularly in the final act, it wasn't swiped all over the screen as in JW (and Disney SW).

Your right. The next one should have an evil robot version of zara with the twist being that there are two identical evil robots

Sickle_Claw wrote:

Spoiler:

I know this was supposed to be joke of some sorts, but yeah, I definitely meant the character comparison 100% literally, most definitely. Just like if I'd said that the creature design was better (it wasn't, but for arguments sake), I'd preferred if all the JW dinosaurs were aliens, right?  

Also, perhaps consider putting that statement of yours in spoiler tags, it''s still a new film.

Well, it certainy wasn't a perfect film, and parts of it were a bit boring, you're right. But the exciting parts more than made up for that. I haven't been this excited while seeing an Alien film for a long time (I'd rather watch Jurassic Park III 100 times over than suffer through Alien: Ressurection again). But back before we had any idea that JW would ever come, I used to fantasize about the next Jurassic Park Movie being a dark, exciting movie with scary scenes and astonishing CGI. Alien: Covenant achieved a lot of that, and JW did not. So, having waited for a new (real) Alien movie since 1997, I was more than satisfied with what we got.

As a side note, if you found the plot of Prometheus completely uninteresting then you are going to be bored with parts of Alien: Covenant. If you both loved the Alien movies and thought Prometheus had some fascinating ideas, then you're in for a ride.

Prometheus might've been decent scifi film with every reference to Alien removed. It'd been sorta like Interstellar.

Similarly Covenant might've been okay Prometheus sequel with all the Alien stuff removed

For me, Prometheus is the symbol of blandness, just as Covenant is the symbol of boringness, but at least I would argue that Prometheus had aspirations for more. It didn't feel as much as a "product". Also it had more than one good character in it. I literally have not seen it since theater, so I cannot fathom all the details right now, but I recall Charlize Theron being as good as Fassbender. Also the film felt less dumb overall.

To bring it back to JP, I see both Covenant and JW as "soulless studio reboot products", whileas JP3 is just generic sequel, and Prometheus is Scott's personal pet project. With that damned Lost writer making things up.

But be it as it may, as I said before with the lack of personal interest for Covenant's success or failure, soullesness of it doesn't really anger me as in JW.

Mistral wrote:

With that damned Lost writer making things up.

Almost thought this was a jab at me I thought the whole Engineer concept in Prometheus was brilliant, and wish it was touched upon even more in Covenant.

Also, I'll take this opportunity to add that I'd rather watch Indominus Rex and a Triceratops have a baby together than ever see that goddamn newborn alien hybrid from Ressurection again in my life. Oh, how I wish I could unsee.

Lost wrote:

Mistral wrote:

With that damned Lost writer making things up.

Almost thought this was a jab at me

Haha

Lost wrote:

Mistral wrote:

With that damned Lost writer making things up.

Almost thought this was a jab at me I thought the whole Engineer concept in Prometheus was brilliant, and wish it was touched upon even more in Covenant.

Also, I'll take this opportunity to add that I'd rather watch Indominus Rex and a Triceratops have a baby together than ever see that goddamn newborn alien hybrid from Ressurection again in my life. Oh, how I wish I could unsee.

I liked Resurrection, and the hybrid

(sorry for the double post, only noticed your edit now and I'm on mobile, standing in the rain and was difficulf to copypaste on wet screen lol)

Mistral wrote:

Lost wrote:

Mistral wrote:

With that damned Lost writer making things up.

Almost thought this was a jab at me I thought the whole Engineer concept in Prometheus was brilliant, and wish it was touched upon even more in Covenant.

Also, I'll take this opportunity to add that I'd rather watch Indominus Rex and a Triceratops have a baby together than ever see that goddamn newborn alien hybrid from Ressurection again in my life. Oh, how I wish I could unsee.

I liked Resurrection, and the hybrid

(sorry for the double post, only noticed your edit now and I'm on mobile, standing in the rain and was difficulf to copypaste on wet screen lol)

I couldn't stand it, hated everything from its looks to its bonding moment with Ripley to its tragic demise.

Btw, I see some parallells between the Alien and JP franchises. Both had amazing first movies with the ante being upped in the second (bigger, more action), then horribly received third movies and lackluster fourth outings. Which is worse though, JP3 or Alien 3? Opinions?

Lost wrote:

Mistral wrote:

Lost wrote:

Mistral wrote:

With that damned Lost writer making things up.

Almost thought this was a jab at me I thought the whole Engineer concept in Prometheus was brilliant, and wish it was touched upon even more in Covenant.

Also, I'll take this opportunity to add that I'd rather watch Indominus Rex and a Triceratops have a baby together than ever see that goddamn newborn alien hybrid from Ressurection again in my life. Oh, how I wish I could unsee.

I liked Resurrection, and the hybrid

(sorry for the double post, only noticed your edit now and I'm on mobile, standing in the rain and was difficulf to copypaste on wet screen lol)

I couldn't stand it, hated everything from its looks to its bonding moment with Ripley to its tragic demise.

Btw, I see some parallells between the Alien and JP franchises. Both had amazing first movies with the ante being upped in the second (bigger, more action), then horribly received third movies and lackluster fourth outings. Which is worse though, JP3 or Alien 3? Opinions?

JP3 is arguably the worse movie by itself, but Alien 3 is worse in the level of "what it could've been". As I've said before, the behind the scenes stuff and background drama of Alien 3 is actually way more interesting than the movie itself I mean I still do like the film 'fine', just as I do Resurrection, but it's a pretty sorry story nevertheless.

Anyway, TLW is what broke the bone of JP already, yes it's liked by most of fandom but still to this day widely ignored and hated by GA.

If we were to make direct personal preference comparisons between the two franchises (or three/four counting Predator + AVP), I'd go with best to worst of:

Jurassic Park (10/10)
Aliens (10/10)
Alien (9/10)
The Lost World (7/10)
Alien Resurrection (7/10)
Alien 3 (7/10)
Predator (7/10)
Predator 2 (6/10)
Predators (6/10)
Jurassic Park 3 (5/10)
Prometheus (5/10)
Alien vs Predator (4/10)
Alien Covenant (4/10)
Jurassic World (3/10)
Alien vs Predator Requiem (2/10)

Mistral wrote:

I liked Resurrection, and the hybrid

Winona Ryder is in it, of course you did.

Aegyptiacus3 wrote:

Mistral wrote:

I liked Resurrection, and the hybrid

Winona Ryder is in it, of course you did.

Ha ha

Ha ha

I may love her, but I can assure I'm not a blind defender. She's also in Mr Deeds, The Letter and The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things, which all suck ass.

With Mr Deeds, I'd rather watch both JW and Covenant again on same sitting than endure through that Adam Sandler crap. Well, unless I was allowed to just keep screwing with my phone while watching, then 90 minutes of that in the background with occasional glimpse to the screen would be preferable to the alternative. But only then.

Mistral wrote:

JP3 is arguably the worse movie by itself, but Alien 3 is worse in the level of "what it could've been". As I've said before, the behind the scenes stuff and background drama of Alien 3 is actually way more interesting than the movie itself I mean I still do like the film 'fine', just as I do Resurrection, but it's a pretty sorry story nevertheless.

Well I've just rewatched the Alien 3 Extended Cut, which is supposed to be a lot better, and I had almost forgotten how unbelievably bad this movie is. The CGI is atrocious! I can't believe that this movie was released between Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. The CGI looks straight out of a mid-nineties video game. I don't even care that much that they killed off Newt and Hicks, I just wanted a decent movie with some cool alien scenes, but there are none! The alien behaves in a stupid way, the characters are utterly unlikable and the atmosphere is so gloomy it makes me want to kill myself. How on Earth did they screw this up so badly? But then again, the same thing could be said about JP3

Lost wrote:

Mistral wrote:

JP3 is arguably the worse movie by itself, but Alien 3 is worse in the level of "what it could've been". As I've said before, the behind the scenes stuff and background drama of Alien 3 is actually way more interesting than the movie itself I mean I still do like the film 'fine', just as I do Resurrection, but it's a pretty sorry story nevertheless.

Well I've just rewatched the Alien 3 Extended Cut, which is supposed to be a lot better, and I had almost forgotten how unbelievably bad this movie is. The CGI is atrocious! I can't believe that this movie was released between Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. The CGI looks straight out of a mid-nineties video game. I don't even care that much that they killed off Newt and Hicks, I just wanted a decent movie with some cool alien scenes, but there are none! The alien behaves in a stupid way, the characters are utterly unlikable and the atmosphere is so gloomy it makes me want to kill myself. How on Earth did they screw this up so badly? But then again, the same thing could be said about JP3

Actually, there's only one CGI shot in the film, the rest is (not that great) puppetry and tricks

It's one of those weird films where certain section of the fanbase thinks it's the greatest thing on Earth, while others hate it with passion. It's kind of like TLW I guess. And just as with TLW, I'm in the middle.

My extended thoughts from the other thread:
https://jurassicmainframe.forumotion.com/t324p45-whoever-wins-we-lose-aliens-and-predator-also-prometheus-and-stuff

Mistral wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:

From what I've heard, if it wasn't for Fox meddling, then Alien 3 would have been universally/mostly universally received. The directors cut or something like that is much better then the theatrical version.

The amount of meddling and rewrites in that film make JP3 production seem like a walk in the park (get it? ha-ha) in comparison. There was ever, never chance for that film to succeed after the initial plans got scrapped.

Also it's not a directors cut, as Fincher absolutely loathes the film and never wants to speak of it.

I dislike that assembly/extended version as there's a LOT of boring time wasting and weird decisions. The alien changed of being born out of ox is infinitely less interesting and cruelsome than out of dog, religious references or not. And also that makes no sense with the body shape and movements of the alien.

The only thing I did like about the assembly/extended cut was Charles Dance finding Ripley from that beach area, and more of him in general. You know because other than Ripley and Bishop, Charles's character Clemens is the only actually interesting person in the film. So of course he gets killed almost instantly...

The theatrical cut is 'fine". I always really liked the first act, up until Clemens gets killed and when it transforms into lame slasher film. From there I'm always utterly bored until the last 10 mins or so, when Lance Henriksen and the company show up. That is the interesting stuff, not the rehash from the first film or the boring action.

Anyway the background drama and documentaries about the film are infinitely more interesting than the final product. Empire magazine has made great in depth articles about this clusterf*ck, too

One CGI shot? Are you sure? That can't be right. There were numerous very quick shots where you catch a glimpse of the alien running or moving quickly and it looks extremely bad. The CGI shots and the animatronics look like two completely different animals.

Lost wrote:

One CGI shot? Are you sure? That can't be right. There were numerous very quick shots where you catch a glimpse of the alien running or moving quickly and it looks extremely bad. The CGI shots and the animatronics look like two completely different animals.

No, it's a miniature rod puppet in front of bluescreen, optically/photochemically composited.

Lost, I really have no idea what you mean as far as your comparisons to JW... but I did like Alien Covenant a lot.

Mistral wrote:

Lost wrote:

One CGI shot? Are you sure? That can't be right. There were numerous very quick shots where you catch a glimpse of the alien running or moving quickly and it looks extremely bad. The CGI shots and the animatronics look like two completely different animals.

No, it's a miniature rod puppet in front of bluescreen, optically/photochemically composited.

Oh. They really did a terrible job then. Anyway, the movie is interesting in its own way, kind of like JP3. It's good for what it is, but not a good Alien movie. The thing I do like about it is that the writers/Fincher tried to take Alien back to its simple horror roots, I guess.

Troyal1 wrote:

Lost, I really have no idea what you mean as far as your comparisons to JW... but I did like Alien Covenant a lot.

Well, just trying to point out the things in Covenant that I wish I had seen in JW. Mainly the dark atmosphere, less obvious references to the original and a fresh, original story. When I watched the neomorph on the rampage inside the lander with the terrified crew shooting at it in desperation, I wished JW had more of that instead of all the "funny" dialogue and winks at the audience. What was it you liked about Covenant, if I may ask?

Lost wrote:

The thing I do like about it is that the writers/Fincher tried to take Alien back to its simple horror roots, I guess.

There was NOTHING simple about what it was originally supposed to be, as the scripts and ideas got reworked and trashed and reworked and trashed and reworked.. Wooden planet anyone?

Yeah I've read about the whole drama surrounding the pre-production. Really insane stuff Poor Fincher. We're lucky he decided to stay in Hollywood after such a start. But at least the movie ended up being somewhat simple in terms of plot, like the original.

Yeah, it might've hurt him on personal level, to get screwed over, but IMO what he ultimately scrambled together was not "embarrassing", when it might've been a complete disaster, crap like the Island of Dr Moreau. I still think the film is better than AVP+AVP2+Prometheus+Covenant combined... and I do watch it every couple of years. But unlike most, I don't like the Assembly cut, as I said before

I actually think Alien 3 could be the first Alien movie I ever saw, when I was like 9, I have some vague memory of that. But I wasn't into Alien then the way I was into Jurassic Park, so it doesn't feel nostalgic for me. And I definitely don't think it's a great movie. However, Alien has always been my favorite movie in this series and not Aliens, unlike a lot of people. I've always liked the horror-based approach better than the action-based approach. And for that reason, I feel like Alien 3 at least attempted to take a step in (for me) the right direction.

I saw Resurrection first, then the first three films in order.

Regarding horror, it's funny but as 14 year old Aliens scared me more than Alien did lol. There is definite suspense in the first half, before it turns into action. Both which I love.

Mistral wrote:

I saw Resurrection first, then the first three films in order.

Regarding horror, it's funny but as 14 year old Aliens scared me more than Alien did lol. There is definite suspense in the first half, before it turns into action.

Aliens is a really solid movie, but I just love the simplicity of Alien. But both are amazing movies and I'm glad they're different.

As a side note, I've never actually watched Predator or any of its sequels (not counting AVP). Is it worth checking out? How does it compare to Alien? I read somewhere that there's a new Predator sequel coming out in 2018, actually.